Logos and Kindle

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This post has 80 Replies | 16 Followers

Posts 11
Mel Longtin | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 22 2009 2:11 PM

How about making Libronex software available on the Kindle - especially Bibles.

Posts 66
Christopher S Macy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 2:52 PM

I had called and actually got to talk to a fellow about this and they said that they were waiting to see what format ends up being the standard and what will people ultimantly end up using iPhone, Kindle, Sony reader etc...

This conversation happened about 3 months ago. So I believe they are looking, but as always they are waiting.

Hope this helps.

Posts 66
Christopher S Macy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 22 2009 3:00 PM

I was just on the front page of Logos.com answering the questions you find on the right hand side down a little bit and they had a question "Do you own a Kindle". So it seems apparent that they are watching it and considering putting things on the Kindle, however we need to remember that Logos does not own any of the major commentaries, Bibles, or other books in the library (maybe a few). So they'll need to work closely with the publishers who may wish to go another route.

Posts 21
Quipper | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 4:34 AM

It seems to me that a limited portable computer product (that's really what smartphones and even the Kindle are) is simply another way to use a product that we've already purchased.

You could buy a tiny netbook now and probably fit your whole Libronix library and the program on it. One of these devices are simply more convenient and more compact than one of those, among other benefits to a reader, such as battery life.

So I'm not sure the publishers would have anything to say pro or con to this concept--except that sales at Logos might spike! Wink

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 7:57 PM

An additional question should have been asked: Are you going to buy a Kindle?

Charlene

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 8:36 PM

MelvynRLongtin:

How about making Libronex software available on the Kindle - especially Bibles.

I'm inclined to not be particularly interested in the Kindle due to its rather hefty price of $359.  That said, I was looking at some offerings in an email from Dove Books in which they listed Marvin Sweeney's King Josiah of Judah: The Lost Messiah of Israel (a mere $101.99 Dove's price Surprise).  I thought I would see if Amazon happened to have it with the "Look Inside" feature (It does).  I also note that it is available for the Kindle (at a minuscule $145) Big Smile  Does anyone know whether these can be ported to one's computer?

Thank goodness for the edit feature.  One more question:  Is it possible to copy text from the Kindle and paste it into a document?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5
Dennis Hodge | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 24 2009 11:04 PM

If you highlight text on the Kindle, you can go to kindle.amazon.com and cut-n-paste from there.  Your notes also appear organized by book.  This saves you the hassle of transferring the text file for some subset of use.

Posts 3
Michael Hollinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:34 PM

I have been meaning to write Bob Pritchett a "Use Case" for the Kindle, and I think I finally have it. 

I LOVE my Kindle.  I have found myself able to read a lot more now that I have one, and I love having something to read whenever I find a spare 5 minutes. I use it in conjunction with Google Reader, so that when I find a longer article, I press a bookmarklet button that says "Read on Kindle"  It uses the Instapaper web service to automatically download said "longer article" for when I have that five minutes.

Now, I would love to have my entire Libronix library on the Kindle. The only problem is that a Kindle 2 only has 2GB of space, and I have over 6 GB of Libronix books.  How to bridge this gap?  Well, I think the answer lies in the way I use my Kindle.

It's really as simple as this - At the Top of the Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide, I want a button that says "READ ON MY KINDLE" Said button would take simply take all of the relevant sections from the passage guide and build them into a single book that I could read through.  Each week, first thing, I'd probably dump the passage guide onto my Kindle as a single book, and read it through the week as I have time.

Admittedly, I'd also like to set up a "To Read" list of titles in Logos, and have the "next " one also pop onto my Kindle - but I wouldn't be surprised if there are license restrictions on that.

Anyways, that's how I'd integrate a Kindle with Logos.  I hope Bob is listening :)

Posts 502
Randall Hartman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:56 PM

I've owned my Kindle for about 3 months.  Even now I am trying to decide if I should keep it.  I view it as a convenient way to read for entertainment.  The underlining function, shockingly to me, is limited. I read and marked an entire book thinking all of my clippings would be imported into the file on my laptop.  Later, when I went to use the notes for a project I was stunned to see that over half of my clippings were not available.  The publisher places a limit on the amount of clippings you can export, thus severely limiting the usefullness of the Kindle for serious study.  The other thing I do not like is that you "buy" a book but you really don't own it.  By that I mean you cannot sell the book to someone else.  Since you cannot sell it to someone else that seems to me that you really do not own it.  IMHO "rent" is a more accurate word than "buy."

Having said all that there is something really cool about the Kindle and the fact that you can get a book on it within 5 minutes...

Posts 204
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 4 2009 3:54 PM

MelvynRLongtin:
How about making Libronex software available on the Kindle - especially Bibles.

I got another idea, how about Logos on Mobile Phone?  Windows Mobile, Android, iPhone???

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 3666
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 4 2009 8:20 PM

MelvynRLongtin:
How about making Libronex software available on the Kindle - especially Bibles.

Someone posted this link on the newsgroups:

http://www.nuance.com/imaging/omnipage/omnipage-reformats-documents-for-kindle2.asp

 I suggests that the newest version of OmniPage can "print" to the Kindle.  Has any body tried this?

Blessings,

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 7 2009 10:12 AM

MichaelHollinger:

Anyways, that's how I'd integrate a Kindle with Logos.  I hope Bob is listening :)

I am. We'll see what we can do...

Posts 9
Peter Covert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 12:55 PM

Floyd Johnson:
I suggests that the newest version of OmniPage can "print" to the Kindle.  Has any body tried this?

As George was saying in another post.

The EULA of electronic books do not allow you to convert the text from one format to another format (to a pdf, MS Word, Kindle,...).  This is because you do not 'buy' an electronic book (or any software for that mater).  You buy the right to read that book in a certain format.

Posts 3666
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 1:37 PM

Peter Covert:
The EULA of electronic books do not allow you to convert the text from one format to another format (to a pdf, MS Word, Kindle,...).  This is because you do not 'buy' an electronic book (or any software for that mater).  You buy the right to read that book in a certain format.

The EULA varies from book to book.  I have some resources that have no restrictions - many of these would be works in the public domain.

Others include text similar to the following:

Permission is granted to make up to 100 copies of each article from Discipleship Journal.
Paul Westervelt, P. (1981; 2006). Discipleship Journal, Issue 1 (January/February 1981). NavPress.

Others have something like the following:

Copyright 1985 by InterVarsity Christian Fellowship of the United States of America
All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any form without written permission from InterVarsity Press, P O Box 1400, Downers Grove, Illinois 60515
Barker, S. (1997, c1985). Good things come in small groups : The dynamics of good group life. Includes index. (4). Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press.

I want to be sure to read the copyright information included with the book I am currently reading.  I am also required to limit my use to the "Fair Use" principles included in law.  I expect that there may be librarians among us that can help us understand Fair Use of copyrighted works.

Here are comments from the Electronic Frontier Foundation (aka EFF) about fair use of electronic material:

http://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php

Blessings,

Floyd

 

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 3:49 PM

Floyd Johnson:

MelvynRLongtin:
How about making Libronex software available on the Kindle - especially Bibles.

Someone posted this link on the newsgroups:

http://www.nuance.com/imaging/omnipage/omnipage-reformats-documents-for-kindle2.asp

 I suggests that the newest version of OmniPage can "print" to the Kindle.  Has any body tried this?

Blessings,

Floyd

Brother Floyd,

I haven't yet made the plunge for a Kindle but have been waiting "for such a time as this."

I have been running OmniPage OCR for years and just talked to the customer service rep about this new improvement because I will be upgrading. I didn't think to ask about the legalities of it but one point worth noting is it does convert PDF files to Kindle. With the vast array of public domain PDF books out there (see Google Books) there should be no shortage for legal material. If all you want to do is read (What more can you do with the Kindle?)  then it shouldn't be all that necessary to get copyrighted formats when there are public domain PDFs available. For the newer copyrighted works (that lend themselves to mostly reading without the need for extensive linking)  licensing should ideally be through Libronix in such a way that you have the right to export it to the Kindle for personal reading if you have it in your Libronix library. With all the copyright lawyers out there, it isn't as though the license terms are written in stone or codified by legislation. That's just a cop-out excuse to keep selling more licenses. Just take a look at eSword's copyright, or the GNU licensing. The owner of the rights to the material can just about allow/prohibit anything they want. If they want a wider audience they won't overly restrict the usage. There was once a day when you could buy a recorded work on LP, transfer it to 8-track  then cassette tape, then CD without violating copyright laws so long as it was for personal use.

That's why it is really important to actually READ the End-User Licensing Agreement.

 

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 4:11 PM
Bottom line: Owner of copyright has right to allow/disallow whater they wish. They OWN the content. There is no "bill of rights" for users Libronix's EULA is clear - we can't copy, via any means, significant portions of an given resource to other venues without written permission. So, if this discussion is about porting L resources to other vehicles, without Logos' permission, the answer is simple: don't. If the discussion is not about libronix, them probably it should be on some other forum. Copyrights are often disregarded - but just because 5 million martians call a cow's tail a "leg" - the cow does NOT have five legs. What you have is a four-legged cow, and 5 million dumb martians. I trust you get the point :-) Can we please get back to discussing legal uses of Libronix? Btw, please pardon me if I've misunderstood the "drift" of this conversation.

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

Posts 8
Mike Breen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 4:43 PM

I had the same concern about the Kindle's price until it was pointed out to me that the cost of an iPod is about the same.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 8:06 PM

JimDean:
Bottom line: Owner of copyright has right to allow/disallow whater they wish. They OWN the content. There is no "bill of rights" for users Libronix's EULA is clear - we can't copy, via any means, significant portions of an given resource to other venues without written permission. So, if this discussion is about porting L resources to other vehicles, without Logos' permission, the answer is simple: don't. If the discussion is not about libronix, them probably it should be on some other forum. Copyrights are often disregarded - but just because 5 million martians call a cow's tail a "leg" - the cow does NOT have five legs. What you have is a four-legged cow, and 5 million dumb martians. I trust you get the point :-) Can we please get back to discussing legal uses of Libronix? Btw, please pardon me if I've misunderstood the "drift" of this conversation.

Brother Jim, You did misunderstand the "drift."

I never condoned or suggested illegal use of any works. I said almost word for word what you said about owner's control over their work. (Btw; Authors are not always owners of the rights. Some sell them to the publisher.)

My point is IF the owner of the rights WANTS to, they can license their work to be published by LOGOS with express permission built-in for private porting to the Kindle or whatever device. Maybe that would require lawyers at LOGOS to amend some of the current EULA.

I only mentioned the public domain PDFs to point out why I think LOGOS would do better financially to focus on currently copyrighted (therefore licensable-for-a-profit) works. A case in point is the Community pricing for Barnes' Notes. Some people don't see the benefit of a Libronix integrated version when there is a free PBB version. I think it would be beneficial so I entered a bid on it. I think the 503 Nelson book DVD is a marvelous example of what I'm talking about.

Last time I read the LOGOS EULA it said I can install the program on two machines for my own personal use. (Presumably a church office computer and a laptop I take home?) There could be a question as to the legality of installing LOGOS on a church office computer and a home PC and a Mac Book. That's 3 computers, one too many. Then there is the philosophical question about whether a dual boot system constitutes a dual installation and if a portable USB drive would constitute multiple installations (Is cloud computing legal?) The forward progress in the digital age continues to raise new questions, challenges and creativity. Some adapt, some don't. You can guess which ones die.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 8:57 PM

Kindle DX model has "Integrated PDF Support" so I guess you don't have to have OmniPage 17 unless you get one of the lower priced Kindles.

Like Quipper   Replied: Tue, Jun 23 2009 6:34 AM
"You could buy a tiny netbook now and probably fit your whole Libronix library and the program on it. One of these devices are simply more convenient and more compact than one of those, among other benefits to a reader, such as battery life."


A tablet pc also has a lot of advantages over the Kindle.

besides having a nifty rotating screen
-you can carry your whole LOGOS installation with you,
-have wireless (cell phone based) internet, better than just downloading from Amazon.
-have music & start-up sounds or audio sermons
-make all the notes you want with a stylus no less!
-synch with the office computer
(so long as you keep that battery charged.)

Still me thinks me wants one Kindle!  Cool

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 12 2009 9:02 PM

Thank you for the clarification, Matt, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

You're right - it is hard nowadays to figure out where the "line" IS, esp re things like multiple machines, etc.

I've discussed those issues in the past with L, and I've gotten "official" and "unofficial" answers.  I guess the point is that they want to make sure their customers have enough flexibility to use the products, but not enough to make it easy for others to "borrow".  It's the old story - the locks on most doors are there to "keep the honest people honest ".

I truly do hope that L will find some means by which we can utilize our licensed resources on the "ittybitty" computers that have become popular in the last five years or so, since the EULA's were originally composed.  I would hope that if they can create a "skinny reader", the EULA would be modified to allow for full Libronix instances on two full computers and one Lreader instance on a portable handheld device, of whatever variety.

But, who knows ... if ATT ever gets their act together and if we can transition to 4G widely throughout the country, then maybe the ittybitty solution will simply be online connection, with licenses registered at the server, so that each user can access their resources that way, for "just reading" purposes.

Getting late ... disjointed thots.  Again, sorry about the misunderstanding.

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

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