Matching skips levels

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Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 4 2010 1:11 PM

  1. Can someone explain "Matching skips levels" under General when doing a Syntax search?
  2. If I run a phrase search with two segments (torah as Noun, Construct + YHWH), and have Matching skips levels selected for YHWH only, I get 19 results, which is correct. If I run the same search and have Matching skips levels for both segments, I get 66 results, which are really only 19 results + a bunch of duplications. If I run the same search with Matching skips levels selected only for torat, I get 15 results, which is the same number obtained by doing a Bible Word Study on torah and looking at Grammatical Relationships > Modified by Adjective.

Thanks.

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 1:34 PM

Mark,

"Matching Skips Levels" allows there to be a distance between the parent and child. In the search example you're stating, with a phrase followed by two segments, if you have "Matching skips levels" checked, it means that there could be some other element coming between the "Phrase" and "Segment." In other words, if matching skips levels isn't checked, the two elements must be uninterrupted. For example, look at Lamentations 1:1 in Andersen Forbes.

If I ran the following search:

It won't catch Lamentations 1:1 because there are elements between the Subject and the segment (specifically, there are two separate noun phrases). However, if I check matching skips levels, it will find Lamentations 1:1, because the segment no longer must IMMEDIATELY follow the subject.

As to why the multiple countings? I don't quite know why that happens Sad

Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 1:47 PM

Thanks. Helpful. So do not select "Matching skips levels" for searching things like a construct chain.

Follow-up: Is there any difference between selecting "Matching skips levels" and placing "Anything" between to items in the Syntax search?

Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 2:21 PM

Okay, I thought I had it but I do not. Why does selecting "Matching skips levels" for the YHWH segment and not for the torah segment get the correct results? There is nothing in between the Phrase and Segment 1 + Segment 2.

Here is my construction:

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 2:32 PM

Mark Futato:
So do not select "Matching skips levels" for searching things like a construct chain

Correct. Only use matching skips levels if you want to allow distance between the two search elements.

Mark Futato:
Follow-up: Is there any difference between selecting "Matching skips levels" and placing "Anything" between to items in the Syntax search?

Yes. "Matching Skips Levels" works horizontally, while "Anything" works vertically.

If you look at a syntax graph, Lamentations 1:3 for example, "matching skips levels" allows for distance between search elements that are separated horizontally (blue arrow), while "anything" allows for distance between search elements that are separated vertically (red arrow).

In Lamentations 1:3 if I wanted to find a subject with כָל in it, I could use the following:

On the other hand, if I wanted to find place where the subject was followed by a direct object, but could have a verb (or anything else inbetween), I could use the following:

Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 2:50 PM

Thanks. Helpful.  Why does selecting "Matching skips levels" for the YHWH segment and not for the torah segment get the correct results? There is nothing in between the Phrase and Segment 1 + Segment 2.

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 3:37 PM

Because "Matching Skips Levels" allows levels to be skipped, it doesn't necessitate it. So it still finds the instances where the two items appear right next to each other (vertically).

Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 4:57 PM

Thanks. One more follow-up and I think I am done. Why do I get 15 results when Matching... is not selected for the second segment but 19 when it is selected?

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 4 2010 6:58 PM

Mark,

Take a look at 2 Kings 10:31.

Here is an example where Matching skips levels is important. יהוה is tagged with an additional phrase (noun:deity), meaning that if matching skips levels isn't selected, it won't be found because the segment (יהוה) is not an immediate child of the same parent that תורה is a child of. You might ask, "Why is it tagged with that additional phrase here but not in other places?" The answer is: I have no idea. Smile

EDIT - this means, of course, that I was incorrect earlier. "Matching Skips Levels" can be important even in things like a construct chain!

Posts 59
Mark Futato | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 5 2010 6:36 AM

David,

Thanks for your patience. Your input has helped me figure this out.

The four extra hits found when "Matching..." is selected all have either a noun in construct or in apposition following YHWH, hence the added level and the need to skip levels.

In this weeks course work I have students using the Syntax Search feature to find and study torat YHWH. They were getting varied results, hence my questions.

I think I now also know why using the Bible Word Study feature gets 15 and not 19. It cannot skip levels, so its results match the results when "Matching...." is not selected.

Peace,

Mark

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 5 2010 7:20 AM

Mark Futato:
The four extra hits found when "Matching..." is selected all have either a noun in construct or in apposition following YHWH, hence the added level and the need to skip levels.

Ah! I didn't notice that. That makes sense. I'm glad you were able to figure it out, and it helped me out as well :)

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