Added Value of The Companion to the Catechism

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 15 2018 1:45 PM

I have Denzinger's Sources and Ott's Fundamentals along with all the Papal and Ecclesiastical documents currently live in Verbum. Also, a couple different editions of patristic writings that are extensive and Canon Law.

I'm wondering what would be added in terms of new sources or links by getting the following:

The Companion to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: A Compendium of Texts Referred to in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

I'm not thinking of the Introduction volume, but the primary, "Companion" resource.

Any ideas?

Here is the link to the resource set:  https://www.logos.com/product/52303/companion-to-the-catechism-collection

Posts 835
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2018 8:15 PM

I realize now that I did not do specific research to find some examples of where the Catechism is not linked to any existing resources available in the Verbum catalog. 

To do that I open up the Catechism and started to step through all the references one-by-one to try and figure out where there are missing primary documents that are linked.  The first I came across was in the Prologue, Section III, Para. 11, Footnote 15 where the reference is to: Extraordinary Synod of Bishops 1985, Final Report II B a, 4.  There is no link to the primary document.

After a little more work I realized this would be an exercise too labor intensive to perform with any reasonable chance of coming up with a list from which to judge the value of the resource I am asking about in the original post.

So .... I'd like to rephrase the question (for Thomas or Craig):  How is the Companion going to be linked to the Catechism?  Will the entire content of the Companion be linked?  Or, will other primary documents maintain there links and the Companion fill in the missing pieces?

Posts 73
LogosEmployee

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the question!  The biggest value for the Companion is that you get all of the CCC references in one volume, without having to collect each and every original volume to link to the CCC in Verbum.

Regarding your question of linking between the Companion and the CCC, the Companion will link to the footnotes and references in the CCC, which is what it essentially designed to provide in print.  Verbum will make the connections in the software, just as it does between the other resources in the software.

I think that answers your question.  Let me know if I've missed anything!

Yours in the Faith, 

Craig

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

Posts 835
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2018 12:57 PM

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply.  What I was looking for, though, is more detail about what may be filling in gaps for resources not currently anywhere else in Verbum catalog. 

For example, the resource reference I make above in the prologue does not exist (as far as I can tell, or it's not linked) in any resource in the Verbum catalog.  When I look in my hardcopy edition of the Companion  there is no excerpt from the document referenced in the CCC.  In other words, even if I purchase the Companion, I'm still not going to have that primary resource that I cite above.

How many other CCC references to external documents will still be missing after the Companion goes live?  Is there a map of the currently inactive references in the CCC so we could see how much more the Companion is going to provide?

Steve

EDIT:  I had the question right the first time and confused myself in the second post.  Embarrassed  The original question, restated here is what I am looking for.

Posts 190
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2018 4:45 PM

Please bring back Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" to Verbum!  

Agape,

Steve

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 19 2018 3:00 AM

Stephen Terlizzi:

Please bring back Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" to Verbum!  

Agape,

Steve

I wish ... but it would need to be in the original German or a new translation IIRC the licensing issues correctly.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2563
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 29 2018 6:55 PM

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
Let me know if I've missed anything!

I think somebody missed putting page numbers in!

(Also, the table of contents is a little funky...)

Posts 73
LogosEmployee

That was probably Ignatius Press that "forgot" the page numbers.  The section numbers, like with the CCC, really take the place of page numbers.

What are you seeing that is amiss with the Table of Contents?  Assume you are referring to the left sidebar and not the table of contents in the text itself.  Section II on the Sacraments looks to be lacking subdivisions, which looks a bit odd.

Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |

Posts 2563
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 11:58 AM

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
That was probably Ignatius Press that "forgot" the page numbers

So it seems. I'm glad that publishers of the real Catechism do not seem to have ever made such a mistake.

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
The section numbers, like with the CCC, really take the place of page numbers.

Except when you want to quote from or otherwise cite the texts found in the companion.

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife):
What are you seeing that is amiss with the Table of Contents?  Assume you are referring to the left sidebar and not the table of contents in the text itself.  Section II on the Sacraments looks to be lacking subdivisions, which looks a bit odd.

The subdivisions in the other sections are not truly subdivisions of the sections. In fact, there are no real subdivisions of the sections provided in the left sidebar. Rather, the sidebar provides subdivisions of certain individual documents (Divini Redemptoris, Quadragesimo Anno, and the Scala Claustralium) that are included in full in the text. You can't even tell what documents the subdivisions are for without clicking on the first subdivision entry and scrolling up, because there is no entry in the left bar for the document as a whole.

Posts 189
Chris K | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 22 2018 1:29 PM

I have the Companion to the Catechism.  Using your example, Prologue footnote 15, it doesn't open up/link to the corresponding section in the Companion as I had hoped.  To find It, I have to open up the Companion then search it.  

I am not sure if this is intended though.  Both logically, and how the software is "suppose to work", one would think that when you click the footnote the reference should be a link that would open up the corresponding section in the companion.  At least, that was the impression I had of what should happen -unless I am doing something wrong!

Other resources I have that are cited in the Catechism do link to the footnote.  My best guess is that the other resources are the primary sources so that is why the linking exists.  Since the Companion is a collection of the resources, I don't think the library recognizes it as being the resource that is cited.

I hope Verbum can fix this - priority given to primary resources already in the library, but when they are missing to "fill in" with the Companion as the resource for the footnotes!

Posts 25196
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 22 2018 6:28 PM

In order for a footnote to be linked, it must refer to a resource that has a standard reference scheme - as do the Church Fathers, the Vatican II documents, ... This particular reference  "Extraordinary Synod of Bishops 1985, Final Report II B a, 4." is unlikely to have had a reference scheme built for it and therefore unlikely to bring up the link in the Companion or any other resource. I'm not saying this is how it should work but I am saying this is what is to be expected.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2563
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 26 2018 1:31 PM

MJ. Smith:

Stephen Terlizzi:

Please bring back Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" to Verbum!  

Agape,

Steve

I wish ... but it would need to be in the original German or a new translation IIRC the licensing issues correctly.

They would have to get it from Baronius Press these days, I believe.

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