GDPR and Logos

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Posts 962
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 2:52 PM

Jan Krohn:
Just except that no-one was holding a gun. If a user didn't want to submit their information to Google, they had every option not to use Google, but alternative services such as DuckGoGo, or keep the browser's privacy mode switched on by default.

Whether you like it or not, it is considered to be not a free choice.

Jan Krohn:
GDPR is silly. It's not restricted to businesses at all. It's far too broad and far too strict.

It may be silly but that is also immaterial.

Jan Krohn:
Is your church GDPR-compliant? Yes, it has to be!! It collects and processes personally identifiable information.

Not sure what you mean. Our churches in the EU, SHOULD be, MUST be compliant, but sadly I suspect that most are not - yet!

If Google, and Facebook etc want to operate in Europe in the future they will need to comply or pay a fine or persuade the EU to change the law or the interpretation of it. Now that is holding a gun to several heads!! 

32 years of enforcing certain unpopular laws on part of our population taught me that you either follow the law or get it changed. Winging or grumbling about it only raises one's own blood pressure and achieves nothing except a possible early death.     

Posts 2248
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 3:29 PM

JohnB:
Whether you like it or not, it is considered to be not a free choice.

How would you use Facebook for example, without providing them any personally identifiable data (be it real or fake data)? It's logically not possible. It's like wanting to eat a big mac without consenting to gaining weight.

JohnB:
Not sure what you mean. Our churches in the EU, SHOULD be, MUST be compliant, but sadly I suspect that most are not - yet!

I'm convinced that 9 out of 10 pastors in the EU, if they know about the GDPR at all, have no idea their church needs to be compliant.

Are you aware that once you accept a business card, you as an individual have to be GDPR compliant, if you take that law literally? If you accept a business card, you collect and process personally identifiable data.

(No-one will realistically do that of course, and hand the business partner a printed privacy policy in return for the business card, but those are the cases which cause me to say that the GDPR is silly.)

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 1691
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 4:26 PM

Patrick S.:

Robert M. Warren:

♫  And lawyers think to themselves, "What a wonderful world." ♫

Mmmm, actually in this case it's more the case that people (or, to use the technical term, data subjects) are singing because large corporations who have abused peoples' rights will no longer be able to do it and get away with it. And that's something to sing about.

  1. Lawyers (either legislators, their staff, or bureaucrats) write legislation/regulations.
  2. Legislation gets passed; usually by lawyers.
  3. Lawyers (maybe some of the same ones through the revolving door) advise businesses, initially on compliance, then on finding the loopholes so they can transact their business.
  4. Lawyers write amended legislation to close the loopholes.
  5. Rinse
  6. Lather
  7. Repeat

The only thing that really changes in the long run is the cost of doing business.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 962
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 4:37 PM

Jan Krohn:
   How would you use Facebook for example, without providing them any personally identifiable data (be it real or fake data)? It's logically not possible. It's like wanting to eat a big mac without consenting to gaining weight.
  

Agreed but who ever claimed that the law is never an ass. Personally I could not care less if FB went belly up especially as they had a could not care less attitude about the data that they did keep hence their grovelling apology before the EU Commission. . 

Jan Krohn:
I'm convinced that 9 out of 10 pastors in the EU, if they know about the GDPR at all, have no idea their church needs to be compliant.
   Agreed, but probably more like 99 out of 100!!   After chatting to a solicitor colleague at her office, a paralegal friend in my church has exited from the church Whats App group concerned that fall out from that could effects her job in the law department of a local authority. 

Jan Krohn:
Are you aware that once you accept a business card, you as an individual have to be GDPR compliant, if you take that law literally? If you accept a business card, you collect and process personally identifiable data. 
  No that is not correct. It is not quite that intrusive! GDPR does not apply to people processing personal data in the course of exclusively personal or household activity. This means that I wouldn’t be subject to the Regulation although I keep personal contacts’ information on my computer or if I had CCTV cameras on my house to deter intruders on my property. To fall within the remit of the GDPR, the processing has to be part of an “enterprise”. Article 4(18) of the Regulation defines this as any legal entity that’s engaged in economic activity. I am retired and not engaged in economic enterprise.

Posts 394
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 28 2018 11:56 PM

JohnB:
Jan Krohn:
I'm convinced that 9 out of 10 pastors in the EU, if they know about the GDPR at all, have no idea their church needs to be compliant.
   Agreed, but probably more like 99 out of 100!!

I am a minister in the Methodist Church in Ireland, and I know that at least the Church of Ireland (Anglican) and our own denomination have taken this seriously. I don't think the numbers are anywhere near as bad as you make it. However, I do suspect that most independent churches will be oblivious or indifferent to the requirements on them from GDPR.

Posts 21725
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 29 2018 12:47 AM

Jordan Litchfield:

JohnB:
Jan Krohn:
I'm convinced that 9 out of 10 pastors in the EU, if they know about the GDPR at all, have no idea their church needs to be compliant.
   Agreed, but probably more like 99 out of 100!!

I am a minister in the Methodist Church in Ireland, and I know that at least the Church of Ireland (Anglican) and our own denomination have taken this seriously. I don't think the numbers are anywhere near as bad as you make it

I was thinking something similar - and wondering how it varies across the EU

As a Baptist minister in England, this has been something under consideration for the last nine months or so - with our Union providing guidance, training and template documents. I have been involved in some quite detailed discussions with other Baptist ministers about some of its implications as well as part of a team drafting policies etc for my own church.

Talking with ministers from other denominations I get the sense that similar things are happening there.

There is, clearly, a step (or two) from awareness to compliance but that's another story!

Posts 2248
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 29 2018 1:05 AM

JohnB:

Jan Krohn:
Are you aware that once you accept a business card, you as an individual have to be GDPR compliant, if you take that law literally? If you accept a business card, you collect and process personally identifiable data. 
  No that is not correct. It is not quite that intrusive! GDPR does not apply to people processing personal data in the course of exclusively personal or household activity. This means that I wouldn’t be subject to the Regulation although I keep personal contacts’ information on my computer or if I had CCTV cameras on my house to deter intruders on my property. To fall within the remit of the GDPR, the processing has to be part of an “enterprise”. Article 4(18) of the Regulation defines this as any legal entity that’s engaged in economic activity. I am retired and not engaged in economic enterprise.

That's only the definition of "enterprise" in the GDPR. It doesn't say at all that the GDPR is restricted to enterprises. Some of the articles apply only to enterprises, or are stricter for enterprises.

As for individuals, the are exempt from the GDPR only in association with purely personal and household activity (Article 2.2.a). https://gdpr-info.eu/art-2-gdpr/

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd had a hard time arguing that for example church activities (by an individual) would not be covered under the GDPR. Although those are personal activities, I don't see how they are purely personal activities, as they're also church activities.

Again, I don't think anyone would be seriously bothered by a church member who for example stores the contact details of members of their home group on their phone, or even sue or fine them for doing so, but just the fact that such cases are not clearly excluded makes the GDPR silly.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

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