NET Bible Reverse Interlinear

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Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 19 2010 6:42 AM

I'm finding the NET Bible a fantastic, fresh, accurate english translation that really gets me reading with a new level of intensity. I find myself frustrated doing in depth study with it in Logos because it doesn't have the Reverse Interlinear. One of the great parts is the translator notes... seems like those would make it much easier to get the RI done faster and more accurately :)

Shalom,

Mike

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 19 2010 6:46 AM

Mike S.:

 

I'm finding the NET Bible a fantastic, fresh, accurate english translation that really gets me reading with a new level of intensity. I find myself frustrated doing in depth study with it in Logos because it doesn't have the Reverse Interlinear. One of the great parts is the translator notes... seems like those would make it much easier to get the RI done faster and more accurately :)

Shalom,

Mike

You may be interested to know that the Lexham English Bible (a Logos project) is being headed up by one of the key people on the NET project. I know it's not the NET, but the LEB is a very literal translation that is a great Bible for study.

But I do agree that an NET rev int would be a great addition to the list of other rev ints.

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 170
NYSERVANT | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 9:53 PM

I love the NET bible and I too would love to see a reverse interlinear for this too.  I find myself having this my key text but when I need to do a word study I have to open the NASB or something else.

Posts 4
Chris Echols | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 6:43 PM

I too would love to see a NET reverse Interlinear.  This may sound heretical, but I'm not a big ESV fan...

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 6:56 PM

Chris Echols:

I too would love to see a NET reverse Interlinear.  This may sound heretical, but I'm not a big ESV fan...

No, it doesn't SOUND heretical; it IS heretical.  Down with interlinears.  Quit pretending you know the original languages and actually learn them or simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 7:15 PM

Chris Echols:

This may sound heretical, but I'm not a big ESV fan...

Why would it? The ESV is nothing more than a glossed over RSV with a few conservative, calvinist tweaks.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 7:25 PM

George Somsel:
Quit pretending you know the original languages and ... simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

I don't know the original languages and rely upon George to set me straight. Wink

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 7:43 PM

alabama24:

George Somsel:
Quit pretending you know the original languages and ... simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

I don't know the original languages and rely upon George to set me straight. Wink

See, you are relying now on Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of anyone who leans on it.  Is 36.6

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10116
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 8:47 PM

I like NET because when they get into a tough translational pickle, their translation notes literally admit selection based on theology.

Wow. How refreshingly open.

Of course, one then wonders, exactly 'whose' theology? And so I tend to stick with a literal translation (another one shipping this month, by the way).

Yesterday, I accidentally ended up on Tabor's site and a page where he was defending Westcott, noting that the ESV had brought back all the Western 'non-interpolations'. (I hope I didn't misquote him).

EDIT: Actually I DID misquote him ... the ESV added back many of the LUKE non-interpolations.


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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 9:08 PM

Denise - 

Do you have a link to the webpage you were reading?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 9:27 PM

Tabor's comments on Westcott / RSV / ESV:

http://www.bibleinterp.com/opeds/tabor_357913.shtml


Posts 18651
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 9:42 PM

George Somsel:
Quit pretending you know the original languages and actually learn them or simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

There is not a binary distinction between not knowing the languages and knowing the languages. It's a continuum of progression from the first to the second. Using interlinears can be an impetus to want to learn a language. Some people find that using interlinears for a time actually helps them in the learning process, especially early on. Once they've learned the languages (using other tools as well, of course: lectures, books, videos, memorizing paradigms, memorizing vocab, practice translating, etc.), they can abandon the crutch of the interlinear. Your stance is like telling a kid: "Down with training wheels. Quit pretending you know how to ride a bicycle and actually learn or simply acknowledge that you don't know how and rely on your parents to tow you in one of those carriage thingies behind their bikes."

Furthermore, competent and reliable people who do know the languages make interlinears. So relying on them can include using the interlinears they produce.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 9:43 PM

Likewise long for "The NET Bible" reverse interlinear so could use Logos Greek Morphology visual filters.

Noticed disciples and behold translate imperatives.  In Matthew 28:19 Go translates an aorist participle while baptizing and teaching translate present participles. In Matthew 28:20, observe translates an infinitive while am translates present tense.

Thankful for reverse interlinear tagging that allows same visual filter to be used in original language and English.

Ideally hoping for "The NET Bible" with reverse interlinear tagging in New and Old Testaments.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 386
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 9:51 PM

Rosie Perera:

George Somsel:
Quit pretending you know the original languages and actually learn them or simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

There is not a binary distinction between not knowing the languages and knowing the languages. It's a continuum of progression from the first to the second. Using interlinears can be an impetus to want to learn a language. Some people find that using interlinears for a time actually helps them in the learning process, especially early on. Once they've learned the languages (using other tools as well, of course: lectures, books, videos, memorizing paradigms, memorizing vocab, practice translating, etc.), they can abandon the crutch of the interlinear. Your stance is like telling a kid: "Down with training wheels. Quit pretending you know how to ride a bicycle and actually learn or simply acknowledge that you don't know how and rely on your parents to tow you in one of those carriage thingies behind their bikes."

Furthermore, competent and reliable people who do know the languages make interlinears. So relying on them can include using the interlinears they produce.

Nicely put Rosie...

But, I think I will quiet using reverse interlinear, I will just post my questions on the forum and let George do his handiwork...Yes

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 10:27 PM

Rosie Perera:
Some people find that using interlinears for a time actually helps them in the learning process, especially early on.

I haven't kept up on the literature but when I was in grad school we'd make a distinction between learning a language so you could think in the language (best done with no transliteration or translation) and learning a language so you could translate/muddle your way through texts - dual language dictionaries, transliteration, interlinear glosses for class ... all fair game. Either way went light on memorized paradigms in favor of practice, practice, practice of similar sentences running through the paradigms until you "absorbed" the paradigm by sight or sound.

Glosses/interlinears do have a long and rich history ... some of the earliest Anglo-Saxon translations appear as glosses. But interlinears/glosses are for those not truly comfortable in both languages ... or to make George happy shall we say that are parallels between written interlinears and spoken pidgins?Stick out tongue Okay, I know I can't defend that statement but I needed to throw George a bone.Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 10:44 PM

MJ. Smith:
Okay, I know I can't defend that statement but I needed to throw George a bone.Big Smile

Ruff, ruff.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 687
Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 10:57 PM

No, it doesn't SOUND heretical; it IS heretical.  Down with interlinears.  Quit pretending you know the original languages and actually learn them or simply acknowledge that you don't know them and rely on competent and reliable people who do know them.

 

I sometimes wonder why you bothered to invest in Logos at all. A print copy of the original languages would have seem to have been more profitable to you altogether. Just a thought.

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 11:18 PM

Douglas:
I sometimes wonder why you bothered to invest in Logos at all. A print copy of the original languages would have seem to have been more profitable to you altogether. Just a thought.

Obviously you haven't given it much thought.

  1. Space saving
  2. Portability
  3. Linking between resources saving time searching for the proper location

I'm sure that if I spent a bit more time I could come up with a number of other reasons without ever once considering reverse interlinears.

EDIT:  P.S., You should also note that I didn't mention flowers cascading down the screen when I open the program though I should have included the ability to add notes to resources (and delete them if I decide they weren't appropriate without messing up the resource) and, of course, the various search options.  But most of all, there are the Word Find puzzles that let me risk losing my notes.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 11:38 PM

Douglas:
A print copy of the original languages would have seem to have been more profitable to you altogether.

Logos makes it much easier for George to deal with the multiple versions of the "original languages". I'm sure he would be ecstatic if you could give him a print copy of the original manuscript so that all that matching / comparing / pondering was unnecessary.

Douglas:
I sometimes wonder why you bothered to invest in Logos at all.

George may be a favorite curmudgeon but he keeps making one point that needs to be heard by many on the forum - that a little Greek or Hebrew is a dangerous thing when you start "playing linguist." There is a big difference between being a student of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic etc. and being an expert in the language. Some Logos users, including some on the forums, who are students mistake themselves for experts ... and Logos tools can be used to further that delusion. Yes, sometimes George goes too far in his campaign and yes, the warning applies to things other than language but Logos should come with a sign. Think of it like the warning on the passenger side rear view mirror (things may be closed than they appear) - WARNING: WITH LOGOS, YOU MAY APPEAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN YOU ACTUALLY ARE.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 11:49 PM

MJ. Smith:
George may be a favorite curmudgeon but he keeps making one point that needs to be heard by many on the forum - that a little Greek or Hebrew is a dangerous thing when you start "playing linguist." … WARNING: WITH LOGOS, YOU MAY APPEAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE THAN YOU ACTUALLY ARE.
Thank you for stating my point quite clearly (and I include myself).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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