God's Indwelling Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Old and New Testaments

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 22 2010 4:40 AM

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/6334

Interesting find here. The author of this book that sits in pre-pub right now tries to explain how old testament saints were able to believe even though they did not have the Holy Spirit in the same way we do today. They were not regenerated in the same way. I always found that study interesting. I read through what little pages I was able to read. It looks to be at the very least a good attempt to explain how one who is dead in their sins can believe even though they have not been made alive. Heres how he starts it off:

It will be interesting to see how the author deals with the fact that Ezekiel prophesied that a new heart was something to come in the new covenant / dispensation. Tough subject but looks like it is going to be a great book.

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 12:59 PM

It is a great book. I have the paper-version and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've already ordered the prepub! It's particularly good for analysing the perspectives of other writers, but he puts forward a very persuasive case of his own, too.

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Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 3:03 PM

Blair Laird:
Interesting find here. The author of this book that sits in pre-pub right now tries to explain how old testament saints were able to believe even though they did not have the Holy Spirit in the same way we do today

Thanks for making me aware of this resource, I've followed Hamilton for at least a couple of years on his web blog and think very highly of him. I am also glad to have his work on Logos, I do not have the hard copy, but would have bought it sooner of later because the topic is not only interesting but vital to fully understand the "conversion" process. The prepub price is nice too, same as the book from you know whereBig Smile, and we'll get so much more!

Blessings,

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 3:11 PM

got it, thanks for the heads up.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 11:48 PM

Thanks for telling us more about this book. I'd passed it over when I first saw it show up in pre-pub (I already have so many books on pre-pub order I have to start being selective), but it does sound good on second look. So I've just ordered it.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 6:20 AM

Ok. I've ordered it now!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 8:48 AM

Mark Barnes:

It is a great book. I have the paper-version and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've already ordered the prepub! It's particularly good for analysing the perspectives of other writers, but he puts forward a very persuasive case of his own, too.

I see the persuasiveness in his writings, it is good. Does he equate regeneration with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ? I always have.

 

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 12:25 PM

Thanks for posting about this resource, I just ordered it.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 1:02 PM

Blair Laird:
Does he equate regeneration with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ?

No, he doesn't. Explaining why is basically the point of the whole book! The question, I suppose, is "Did Pentecost make a difference? If so, what difference?". He basically argues that all saints (OT and NT) were regenerate, but they weren't all indwelt (that being a mark of the New Covenant). So how you can be regenerate without being indwelt. He argues that in the OT God dwells with (or even in) the covenant community corporately. (Hence the emphasis on nation/land/etc.) But in the NT, he argues God's indwelling becomes personal, fulfilling the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

The main reasons he takes the view he does are John 7:39 and John 16:7.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 5:30 PM

Mark Barnes:

Blair Laird:
Does he equate regeneration with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ?

No, he doesn't. Explaining why is basically the point of the whole book! The question, I suppose, is "Did Pentecost make a difference? If so, what difference?". He basically argues that all saints (OT and NT) were regenerate, but they weren't all indwelt (that being a mark of the New Covenant). So how you can be regenerate without being indwelt. He argues that in the OT God dwells with (or even in) the covenant community corporately. (Hence the emphasis on nation/land/etc.) But in the NT, he argues God's indwelling becomes personal, fulfilling the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

The main reasons he takes the view he does are John 7:39 and John 16:7.

cool, now I don't need to buy the book--got the answer!  Stick out tongue

 

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 8:57 PM

Mark Barnes:

Blair Laird:
Does he equate regeneration with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ?

No, he doesn't. Explaining why is basically the point of the whole book! The question, I suppose, is "Did Pentecost make a difference? If so, what difference?". He basically argues that all saints (OT and NT) were regenerate, but they weren't all indwelt (that being a mark of the New Covenant). So how you can be regenerate without being indwelt. He argues that in the OT God dwells with (or even in) the covenant community corporately. (Hence the emphasis on nation/land/etc.) But in the NT, he argues God's indwelling becomes personal, fulfilling the prophesies of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

The main reasons he takes the view he does are John 7:39 and John 16:7.

Appreciate the response. What does he say concerning David ? I believe David said take not your Spirit from me Psalm 51:11. I have heard it say that the Spirit would come and go but not seal and stay. This seems like it is going to be a great book.

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 11:51 PM

Yes, he argues that as part of his anointing as King, David received the Spirit (1 Sam 16:13), but that meant he was "periodically empowered from the day of his anointing to the end of his life" (cf. Judges 14:6, 19, 15:14, 1Sam 10:10, 11:6). In Psalm 51 David is conscious of what happened to Saul after he sinned (1 Sam 16:14), and therefore prays it doesn't happen to him.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 24 2010 4:51 AM

Wow..that sounds like a great book! How did I miss this one?

It seems like a steal at 13.00!

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 471
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 24 2010 6:51 AM

Thanks for the heads up. It looks like a useful book. I just ordered it as well.

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 24 2010 7:01 AM

Thanks Mark that was a real helpful preview. Now I cant wait to get the book to catch all of his arguments. One more preview please Big Smile What is the authors perspective on what happens to those old testament saints when they died. Does he argue for Abrahams bosom since they were not born again in the same way? I always understood it as they waited for the Messiah in Abrahams bosom and when he came they were united to God just like we are when we die.

Blessings in Christ.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 24 2010 9:58 AM

I'm afraid Hamilton doesn't address the question of what happens after death. But he believes that all OT believers were regenerate. He argues that the Old Testament language of circumcision of the heart is equivalent to the NT language of new birth (Jer. 6:10 cf. Rom. 2:25-29). I would be pretty confident he would therefore believe the OT saints went to heaven in the same way as NT saints.

(Speaking personally, not for Hamilton, the fact that the thief on the cross went to be with Jesus, despite the fact that the redemptive-historical acts of Jesus were not yet complete [Jesus had died, but had not yet been resurrected nor sent the Spirit], would strongly suggest that the experience of the thief would be the same as other OT believers.)

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Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 24 2010 9:45 PM

Mark Barnes:

I'm afraid Hamilton doesn't address the question of what happens after death. But he believes that all OT believers were regenerate. He argues that the Old Testament language of circumcision of the heart is equivalent to the NT language of new birth (Jer. 6:10 cf. Rom. 2:25-29). I would be pretty confident he would therefore believe the OT saints went to heaven in the same way as NT saints.

(Speaking personally, not for Hamilton, the fact that the thief on the cross went to be with Jesus, despite the fact that the redemptive-historical acts of Jesus were not yet complete [Jesus had died, but had not yet been resurrected nor sent the Spirit], would strongly suggest that the experience of the thief would be the same as other OT believers.)

Thanks for the info I look forward to the book.

Blessings in Christ.

 

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