The New Israel

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This post has 17 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 2862
Milkman | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 10 2018 11:32 AM

This is not a theological question in debate format.

I'm looking for some resources that support the notion that the true or I suppose the new Israel of God are comprised of and only those who are "born again" followers of Christ. 

I'm open to resources that debate, but my theo-bent is reformed Baptist.

mm.

mm.

Posts 223
Steve Clevenger | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2018 12:07 PM

This collection should be helpful in your research. 

https://www.logos.com/product/40846/baptist-covenant-theology-collection

If you wanted to purchase one item in the collection, the best book on this topic would probably be "A Discourse of the Covenants that God Made with Men before the Law" by Nehemiah Coxe.

https://www.logos.com/product/157945/a-discourse-of-the-covenants-that-god-made-with-men-before-the-law

Posts 223
Steve Clevenger | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2018 12:09 PM

And "The Baptism of Disciples Alone: A Covenantal Argument for Credobaptism versus Paedobaptism" by Fred A. Malone.

https://www.logos.com/product/160914/the-baptism-of-disciples-alone-a-covenantal-argument-for-credobaptism-versus-paedobaptism

Posts 1606
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2018 4:46 PM

Check out Craig Keener's approach.

There are some quotes in Michael Bird's recent post:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/euangelion/2018/11/craig-keener-on-the-israel-of-god/

Posts 8
Scott Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 6:28 AM

There is O Palmer Robertson's "Israel of God" book which I had read last year. Quite good. Talks of how current (national) Israel nor America are the New Israel, but rather those who are in Christ. I wrote a review of this book awhile back on my blog. He includes a great exegesis of Romans 7 and 11 which are great. 

https://www.amazon.com/Israel-God-Yesterday-Today-Tomorrow/dp/0875523986/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541946221&sr=8-2&keywords=israel+of+god

Scott

Posts 5634
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 11:30 AM

Scott Sullivan:

There is O Palmer Robertson's "Israel of God" book which I had read last year. Quite good. Talks of how current (national) Israel nor America are the New Israel, but rather those who are in Christ. I wrote a review of this book awhile back on my blog. He includes a great exegesis of Romans 7 and 11 which are great. 

https://www.amazon.com/Israel-God-Yesterday-Today-Tomorrow/dp/0875523986/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541946221&sr=8-2&keywords=israel+of+god

Scott

This paragraph in your review needs correction.  See the bold underlined part:

He goes into the lifestyle of Israelis and how this lifestyle of Israel doesn’t fit with the scriptural description of a people faithful to the God of Abraham It also doesn’t does it fit with what many Americans perceive.”

You are missing a period after Abraham and the “does it” part needs to be taken out. 👍😁👌

DAL

Posts 1514
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 1:10 PM

Milkman:
I'm looking for some resources that support the notion that the true or I suppose the new Israel of God are comprised of and only those who are "born again" followers of Christ. 

try searching your library for "replacement theology". You may already own some resources on the topic.

Posts 9395
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 1:17 PM

Milkman:

I'm open to resources that debate, but my theo-bent is reformed Baptist.

mm.

Snow is high above us, winter on its way.

A book you absolutely won't buy. Elaine Pagels has a great discussion of the Israel logic between Paul and John, in her volume on Revelations. It was an eye opener. I had to go back and check the greek to make sure.


Posts 61
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 2:10 PM

Denise:

A book you absolutely won't buy. Elaine Pagels has a great discussion of the Israel logic between Paul and John, in her volume on Revelations. It was an eye opener. I had to go back and check the greek to make sure.

Which part of this book are you referring to?

Posts 9395
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 2:14 PM

HansK:

Denise:

A book you absolutely won't buy. Elaine Pagels has a great discussion of the Israel logic between Paul and John, in her volume on Revelations. It was an eye opener. I had to go back and check the greek to make sure.

Which part of this book are you referring to?

Chap 2 starting approx p60 or so.


Posts 8
Scott Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 3:27 PM

DAL:

This paragraph in your review needs correction.  See the bold underlined part:

He goes into the lifestyle of Israelis and how this lifestyle of Israel doesn’t fit with the scriptural description of a people faithful to the God of Abraham It also doesn’t does it fit with what many Americans perceive.”

You are missing a period after Abraham and the “does it” part needs to be taken out. 👍😁👌

DAL

Many thanks!

Posts 5634
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 3:40 PM

Scott Sullivan:

DAL:

This paragraph in your review needs correction.  See the bold underlined part:

He goes into the lifestyle of Israelis and how this lifestyle of Israel doesn’t fit with the scriptural description of a people faithful to the God of Abraham It also doesn’t does it fit with what many Americans perceive.”

You are missing a period after Abraham and the “does it” part needs to be taken out. 👍😁👌

DAL

Many thanks!

You’re welcome 🙏 

DAL

Posts 18204
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 3:52 PM

David Thomas:
try searching your library for "replacement theology". You may already own some resources on the topic.

That phrase tends to only be used by opponents of the notion that Milkman is trying to research. The more neutral name for this this view is "covenant theology" so a search for "covenant theology" is more likely to find resources that support this notion as opposed to resources that are attempting to refute it.

Posts 5634
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 4:35 PM

Rosie Perera:

David Thomas:
try searching your library for "replacement theology". You may already own some resources on the topic.

That phrase tends to only be used by opponents of the notion that Milkman is trying to research. The more neutral name for this this view is "covenant theology" so a search for "covenant theology" is more likely to find resources that support this notion as opposed to resources that are attempting to refute it.

I totally agree! Replacement Theology is something they made up.  The Jews have not been replaced, they just need to come to grips that we are not saved by works of the law or by being a Jew, but rather obedience to the gospel. 👍😁👌

DAL

Posts 368
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 11 2018 11:48 PM

DAL:

......we are not saved by works of the law or by being a Jew, but rather obedience to the gospel. 

I realise there would be different readings by different groups out there so I'm not raising this to debate with anyone - but my own understanding is that it is faith in Christ alone rather than our obedience that is the standard. If it was by our obedience, then not one of us could be saved. Keep well Paul  

Posts 4563
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2018 12:21 AM

Paul:
If it was by our obedience, then not one of us could be saved.

A comment for which there is not a single shred of support in Tanakh. Gotta admit, though...that YOU said it is so counter-ironic it's ironic.

Posts 12670
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2018 1:52 AM

Rosie Perera:
That phrase tends to only be used by opponents of the notion that Milkman is trying to research. The more neutral name for this this view is "covenant theology" so a search for "covenant theology" is more likely to find resources that support this notion as opposed to resources that are attempting to refute it.

That's true (although "covenant theology" is far too broad to be useful in this context, IMO).

A better label for this view is supersessionism. There are several dictionary articles with this term, and they would be a good starting point.

I'd also suggest looking at commentaries on Romans 11:26, and searching systematic theologies for that verse (as well as the word "supersessionism"). You'll find several of the more reformed theologians supporting supersessionism in these places. (By the way, if you have NT305, Doug Moo's comments are very interesting.)

Also, a friendly reminder that this isn't a place to discuss the theology, just the resources available in Logos and the techniques we can use to find them.

Posts 17362
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2018 11:45 AM

Mark Barnes:
searching systematic theologies for that verse (as well as the word "supersessionism"

An example search for Headword and commentaries on Romans 11

{Headword Supersessionism} OR (("covenant theology","replacement theology",supersessionism) WITHIN {Milestone <Ro11>})

Keep Smiling Smile

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