Kjv only

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This post has 61 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 734
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 5 2018 5:43 AM

I am looking for a thoughtful discussion of the KJV only debate. 

Posts 204
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 5:55 AM

Williams, James B., and Randolph Shaylor, eds. God’s Word in Our Hands: The Bible Preserved for Us. Greenville, SC; Belfast, Northern Ireland: Ambassador Emerald International, 2003.

Williams, James B., and Randolph Shaylor, eds. From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man: A Layman’s Guide to How We Got Our Bible. Greenville, SC; Belfast, Northern Ireland: Ambassador-Emerald International, 1999.

These are both in Logos and seem reasonably balanced.

Posts 8430
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:00 AM

Here is another good resource -

https://www.logos.com/product/144705/authorized-the-use-and-misuse-of-the-king-james-bible

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 8430
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:01 AM

Todd Phillips:

I see Todd just beat me to it by a minute. Smile

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 9
Pastor Don Carpenter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:03 AM

There are many who offer thoughtful refutations of KJV only, but if you are looking for a sane, well stated case for preservation and the TR, I suggest "Touch Not the Unclean Thing" by David Sorenson.  

https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Not-Unclean-Thing-Separation/dp/0971138400

It is required reading for every graduate of Pensacola Christian College... it is not  the re inspiration position espoused by some KJV folks...  if you truly want exposure to a pro kjv side without hunting straw men, this is a good start.

Posts 204
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:25 AM

Outside of Logos, last time I looked there were some well written Thesis on the topic from both sides of the debate, can't honestly say that I have ever read anything truly neutral on this though. Quite a few quote an Ian Paisley book that from memory has "Old Sword" in the title which is out of print.

For those advocating the KJV, or more accurately in many case Textus Receptus, the best of the Thesis available, in my opinion, are the ones that don't rely on a character assassination of Westcott and Hort but focus on the methodology of textual criticism i.e. they discuss theory rather than attack the person.

On the other side the best ones avoid the obvious personality debates and again focus on textual theory usually the external support i.e. the Church Fathers.

Posts 218
Kevin Olson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 7:06 AM

Josh Hunt:

I am looking for a thoughtful discussion of the KJV only debate. 

I found that this was a good debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHR8wJAjNFo

I also profited from James White's book:  The King James Only Controversy

https://www.logos.com/product/43390/the-king-james-only-controversy-can-you-trust-modern-translations

I appreciated White's discussion of the spectrum of positions of people that would hold to some form of KJV Only-ism

Group #1: “I Like the KJV Best”

Group #2: “The Textual Argument”

Group #3: “Received Text Only”

Group #4: The Inspired KJV Group

Group #5: “The KJV as New Revelation”

Posts 928
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 7:29 AM

Graham Owen:

... Quite a few quote an Ian Paisley book that from memory has "Old Sword" in the title which is out of print.

I believe the Ian Paisley book you're thinking of may be My Plea for the Old Sword.

Posts 2653
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 7:35 AM

Kevin Olson:

I also profited from James White's book:  The King James Only Controversy

https://www.logos.com/product/43390/the-king-james-only-controversy-can-you-trust-modern-translations

I appreciated White's discussion of the spectrum of positions of people that would hold to some form of KJV Only-ism

Group #1: “I Like the KJV Best”

Group #2: “The Textual Argument”

Group #3: “Received Text Only”

Group #4: The Inspired KJV Group

Group #5: “The KJV as New Revelation”

YesYes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 204
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 9:38 AM

One final suggestion from me is looking at the work of Zane Hodges and Arthur Farstad, they both make the case for the Majority Text which is nominally a third option so they get criticism from both sides. Both are often quoted in works where the textual conflict is raised as they are seen as having a more reasoned view/approach on the older versus more debate. 

Masked by the divisive/polarising effect that this topic often has is an interesting topic that unfortunately is difficult to discuss. One thing that looking into this reinforced for me was the importance of reading the pages in any Bible before Genesis where textual basis and translation approach are outlined. I believe that the information contained in the opening pages is really useful and makes using the different translations much easier.

Enjoy your reading and studies.

Posts 204
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 9:39 AM

EastTN:

Graham Owen:

... Quite a few quote an Ian Paisley book that from memory has "Old Sword" in the title which is out of print.

I believe the Ian Paisley book you're thinking of may be My Plea for the Old Sword.

That'll be the one, thanks.

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Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 10:54 AM

Doc B:

Kevin Olson:

I also profited from James White's book:  The King James Only Controversy

https://www.logos.com/product/43390/the-king-james-only-controversy-can-you-trust-modern-translations

I appreciated White's discussion of the spectrum of positions of people that would hold to some form of KJV Only-ism

Group #1: “I Like the KJV Best”

Group #2: “The Textual Argument”

Group #3: “Received Text Only”

Group #4: The Inspired KJV Group

Group #5: “The KJV as New Revelation”

YesYes

+1 I really appreciated White's logic and emphasis on consistency. Do note, that James White now says that the book should be updated in light of the latest research.

Posts 928
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 11:00 AM

Graham Owen:

...One thing that looking into this reinforced for me was the importance of reading the pages in any Bible before Genesis where textual basis and translation approach are outlined. I believe that the information contained in the opening pages is really useful and makes using the different translations much easier.

I strongly agree.  Thank you for making that point.

Posts 262
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 11:56 AM

Josh Hunt:

I am looking for a thoughtful discussion of the KJV only debate. 

"The King James Only Controversy" by James White is an excellent resource and is available in Logos. 

Posts 1543
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 12:31 PM

Daniel Yoder:

This book is short and, in my estimation, helpful.  

https://www.logos.com/product/30964/the-king-james-version-debate-a-plea-for-realism

This has been my "go to" since the early 80's. D.A. Carson is as irenic as always in this presentation.

Posts 1788
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 12:58 PM

Pastor Don Carpenter:

There are many who offer thoughtful refutations of KJV only, but if you are looking for a sane, well stated case for preservation and the TR, I suggest "Touch Not the Unclean Thing" by David Sorenson.  

https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Not-Unclean-Thing-Separation/dp/0971138400

It is required reading for every graduate of Pensacola Christian College... it is not  the re inspiration position espoused by some KJV folks...  if you truly want exposure to a pro kjv side without hunting straw men, this is a good start.

Would be nice to have this in Logos

Posts 4584
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 1:56 PM

Graham Owen:
For those advocating the KJV, or more accurately in many case Textus Receptus, the best of the Thesis available, in my opinion, are the ones that don't rely on a character assassination of Westcott and Hort but focus on the methodology of textual criticism i.e. they discuss theory rather than attack the person.

It seems to me that the greatest motivating factor in the KJV only debate is the desire to circumvent the entire need for textual criticism. There are all kinds of assumptions and presumptions that undergird people's perception of the Bible, and part of why these generally anchorless starting points are so crucial and imperative for so many is because they believe that 1) exercising more than a handful of brain cells at any given moment is a work of the flesh (i.e. deep thinking is bad, as are situations that require it), and they are 2) subject to extreme fear of anything that calls their "belief" and "faith" into question. Christians, in general, succor reams of unsubstantiated platitudes that they confuse with legitimate Biblical perspective. Thoughts like "the Bible's message is so simple that a child can understand it" and "God is not the author of confusion" become "anchors"...but they are free-floating anchors unconnected to Biblical truth. If you believe that "God provides certainty", whatever that means, then you can interpret that to mean that any suggestion that a person may need to weed through the difficult task of becoming familiar with issues of textual criticism, a phenomenon that is the antithesis of certainty, is a work of the devil. If you believe that "God wants us to have peace of mind", peace of mind is most quickly reasserted by just declaring that the "old, old book" (KJV) is the only one people need bother their little heads over. Ironically, to "support and prove" this position, a handful of apologists develop elaborate arguments that are themselves something other than simple. C'est la vie.

Of course, one way to circumvent the issue of "which English Bible is best and/or acceptable" is to just learn to study and read the original languages. But that requires more than just a handful of brain cells and so making such a suggestion is a work of the devil...besides "God would never require anyone to learn an unfamiliar language in order to know Him." Speak Your Platitude With Attitude!!

Posts 2560
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 5 2018 6:19 PM

David Paul, do you have a book recommendation in light of your theological considerations?

(I don't. As a Catholic, the KJV-only arguments are just-sit-back-and-watch debates, preferably with popcorn, for me. But this thread has been helpful for me nonetheless.)

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