Thank You Faithlife for Denominational upgrade bundles and Fundamentals gift opportunity!!

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This post has 37 Replies | 2 Followers

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018 10:42 AM

As a Faithlife Connect (No resources) subscriber, I've been spoiled by the added features of L8 from day one. Workflows and Canvas are GREAT!

Today I pulled the trigger on 6 denominational upgrades. 367 resources for an average of 53 cents each PLUS I get to bless a college student whom I've been mentoring who is preparing for vocational ministry.

Friends, if you have not perused the starter and bronze denominational packages you are missing a blessing.

To be able to give as well as invest in my own ministry pushed me over the tipping point.

If you don't have a sales rep you, I heartily endorse Mike Brown (conventional Faithlife email address) as a no fuss/no mess, git-r-done kind of guy!

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 23 2018 3:25 PM

Agree, very kind gift from logos giving fundamentals.

FL people a question: 

If I want to give an L8 package to an appreciated person, do I have to use my credit card on his / her account, or what is the procedure?

I would imagine that working from the recipient of the gift's account is the best way since there is a 100 usd discount for new customers, but I am not sure if using my card on another's account creates a problem.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 23 2018 3:46 PM

You can instruct Faithlife (by email) to use the credit card on your account to purchase resources for another account. Get them to confirm that the new customer discount will be applied.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2018 4:53 AM

Thanks Dave:

Do you know if that is the procedure for giving a gift to someone?

I will contact FL when ready to do the purchase.

Posts 40
Steven New | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2018 7:59 PM

Speaking of Denominational Upgrade Bundles, I was curious which Starter Bundles do you think have the best additional resources I got the Silver Standard Package already.  I am just looking to see which starter packages I should keep an eye on to collect some valuable resources.  My goal is to try to get several different perspectives and understandings of the text.  

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2018 10:26 PM

Hi Steven:

Not an expert, but I would think you need to be more specific:

Are you interested in Spiritual formation, discipleship, missions, particular ministries, worship, fellowship / outreach, spiritual development, spiritual warfare, comparative theology, biblical theology, textual criticism, preaching, apologetics, and so on...?

I would guess certain denominations would be better at certain things, so depending on your interests you can find a corresponding package.

To understand the text, you need not original languages tools alone, but also you need to start from something more basic: epistemology and ontology.

Epistemology: what is truth and how do we get to it (more or less), also Ontology: the nature of reality (ultimate).

To see how this affects your understanding of the text:

If you think we can get to truth by grammatical historical method in synchronic study, without taking the whole counsel of God into consideration in a diachronic topical and intertextual way, you may be missing on the Holy Spirit contextual ability to transcend human context, time, language, and the like to transmit key information.

If you think that the fallen region of God's Kingdom where we live is the ultimate reality, and that the supernatural reality in which God lives and operates does not exist, then you will run contrary to the basic worldview of the whole Bible.

You may want to try reading the following to get a basic overview of where most traditions are coming from and take it from there:

https://www.logos.com/product/27749/survivors-guide-to-theology

hope this helps.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2018 10:34 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

If you think we can get to truth by grammatical historical method in synchronic study, without taking the whole counsel of God into consideration in a diachronic topical and intertextual way, you may be missing on the Holy Spirit contextual ability to transcend human context, time, language, and the like to transmit key information.

If you think that the fallen region of God's Kingdom where we live is the ultimate reality, and that the supernatural reality in which God lives and operates does not exist, then you will run contrary to the basic worldview of the whole Bible

Hamilton, you are not to state your particular beliefs as if they are the only theological position that could possibly be represented on the forums. You had been being reasonably good about staying within the boundaries. Remember that there are boundaries as this is not the place to discuss theology no matter how much some may wish it were.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2018 11:05 PM

Steven New:
I was curious which Starter Bundles do you think have the best additional resources

To some extent, it depends upon your background. If you have been exposed to a broad range of theology, you may be able to read and understand any of the packages; if you have very limited exposure, it may be better to start with things closer to your own beliefs.

If I assume your background based on statistical possibility I would make the following suggestion as to sequence:

  1. Baptist or Methodist/Wesleyan or Reformed - whichever you consider the closest to your own position which is not your own position; this gives you a solid start for reading other views with understanding
  2. Orthodox - yes, I mean Orthodox, because of their remaining firmly grounded in the church fathers and not particularly interested in systematic theology this gives you a solid background in church fathers/history in a manner that assists you in reading and evaluating any position.
  3. Lutheran or Anglican because they both represent very major streams of the Protestant/Reformation tradition in a moderate manner e.g. their self-definition as a middle way
  4. Jewish packages - not a denomination base package but there are packages in a variety of sizes. This will significantly restructure much of what you thought you learned from the Orthodox/Lutheran/Anglican packages. Your understanding should be much more integrated after this.
  5. Catholic package ... yes, I deliberately put other packages before this because assuming the statistical probably, you are likely very misinformed rather than simply ignorant of the Catholic positions. Orthodox/Lutheran/Anglican/Jewish packages should have disabused you of much of the misinformation and given you the background to actual read what is written not what you expect to read.
  6. The Anabaptists and the Restorationists would be the next on my list if there were packages for them - because each takes a particular aspect of theology to its logical conclusion in ways that emphasize points one might otherwise miss.
  7. Pentecostal & Charismatic is in some ways simply an emphasis on aspects included in all of the above, in some ways similar to Anabaptists and Restorationists. However, for some of us, this will fall into 1a. closest to your own position that is not your own position.
  8. SDA, here I must apologize to those within this tradition as I have never had sufficient need to explore the theology or the packages to have ever formed an informed position ... you're on you own

I'm sure others would give very different lists but I hope I've explained the "why" of my particular list.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 40
Steven New | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 3:30 AM

M.J. Smith:  This is really helpful.  I am copying this list for me.  I was raised in both a Baptist and Methodist church, so you nailed me there perfectly.  I am leaning towards Methodist/Wesleyan Starter, and your suggestion for a Jewish Package, finally I didn't think about the church fathers being the key focus of the orthodox packages, but if that is the case I am definitely interested in those.  

Posts 2199
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 11:51 AM

Steven New:
I was curious which Starter Bundles do you think have the best additional resources

These are both completely opposite to my own tradition, but the resources make them still very worthwhile purchasing:

● Verbum Starter: several works by Peter Kreeft, focus on apologetics and philosophy, three volumes full of artwork, and the Verbum 360 training is a lot more comprehensive than the L8 quick guides.

Next on my purchase list:

● Orthodox Starter: many resources on and by the church fathers and the Lxx ( incl. NETS).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 1:42 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

Do you know if that is the procedure for giving a gift to someone?

I will contact FL when ready to do the purchase.

Pretty much the same if you think about it. Confirm the procedure when you are ready to purchase.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 4:56 PM

Yes MJ, I am aware of limitations.

Note that I am not asking him to believe, join, etc. such type of theology. I am just pointing out something I think he needs to know.

There is Explicit knowledge, tacit knowledge, and ignored knowledge.

I am trying for a person that is asking about packages, things that he may want to explore in order to arrive to truth when trying to understand the text.

Any good system of theology starts with prolegomena, what the preconceptions, previous understandings, presuppositions, assumptions are, how they should be analyzed, to then see if they hinder or facilitate truth finding.

Critical thinking requires to lay it all out for analysis, reflection and then decision.

If what I have shared does not help, just forget about it, retain what is good. God is a God of order, coherence, clarity, benevolence and transparency. Should His adopted children be also?

Kind regards.

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 5:37 PM

This is an awesome list MJ.

From the limited experience that I have:

Baptist: excellent Bible study, discipleship, outreach / missions, Community health evangelism, contextualization of the gospel, very good conceptual framework of what really happened in world history from God and mission's perspective.

Methodist / Wesleyan: excellent planning, absolute vs relative perfection, different outreach outlook, seems to me they understand that true truth so to speak comes from God and it can be found in any sphere (e.g. secular, etc).

Reformed: excellent Systematic theology, very good Biblical basis for most of their constructs, but at times they violate certain standards:

Pure scholasticism is seen as cold by some, and that is why pietism grew as counter to this.

Orthodox: haven't studied them yet. I loved MJ's reference to the Ukranian catechism. I like that most Orthodox are clear that deification / theosis does not mean that we will eventually have self-existence, as that is a non-communicable attribute of God that He will retain forever and that makes Him the only Being worthy of worship.

Lutherans: some have an unbelievable amount of insight:

Jewish: I like the Jewish encyclopedia. JPS resources are interesting. They base their religion on: Worship, study and good deeds.

Catholic: the Catholic topical index is unparalleled in my opinion, I wish there was similar in every other tradition. Moral theology, and Social teaching are great topics. Catechism has four pillars: the Faith we believe, the faith that we pray, the faith that we live, the faith that we celebrate, which is cool.

Anglicans, Restorationists: have resources but have not studied much yet.

Anabaptist: a lot into peace. What many persons are not clear is that supposedly in the Bible there is a difference between killing with malicious intent (forbidden by the Law), and collateral damage (may include manslaughter) in defending one, family, community, country, etc. Need to look more into this.

Pentecostal and Charismatic: even though I am not 100 % of either, this is always my first package in the upgrades. Spirit filled life to me is a non-negotiable of Christian living Romans 5:5.

SDA: very good structuring of Sabbath school, topics, etc. Supposedly, persons that follow their dietary advice, live longer and have less health issues.

Hope this is of help.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 8:51 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
I am just pointing out something I think he needs to know.

You are pointing out theology which people may or may not agree with. This is precisely what we are asked not to do - implicitly put others down by saying this is right and you should know its right. I sometime chafe at what I can't say when people state positions that I believe to be logically impossible to be correct ... but I know that would alienate the posters. Yes, we can correct someone when they misrepresent the position of a particular tradition - but only to insure the position is accurately represented ... not to defend the position as being the truth.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 40
Steven New | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 10:25 PM

Did not mean to start an issue.  Anyway, I appreciated what you both said.  

M.J. Smith. I decided to pick up the Orthodox package first because it had more new resources for me, and I really wanted to have a beginner collection of early church father readings.  

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2018 11:55 PM

Steven New:
Did not mean to start an issue.

You didn't so don't worry ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2018 3:39 AM

Yes MJ, but what is the intention? proselytism? of course not.

You never talk theology, but the few times you hint at some key point, it illuminates persons, without knowing you edify the Body of Christ.

The problem is not theology per se or its discussion, the problem is the arrogant attitude of some persons, that think they have absolute truth down, when any true believer knows that only God is the absolute orthodox Being in the universe.

The fruit of the Spirit is clear, most persons that do not show that fruit in the exchange of theological information, are clearly not mature in that fruit. (so right there I would not follow them).

Any person that is not willing to seriously look at the actual worldview from which he/ she is operating when studying theology is just joking around and possibly  being just part of an indoctrination game by some particular group.

MJ wrote: "... people state positions that I believe to be logically impossible to be correct".

This is key MJ.

1 Human reason is a fit aid to the Holy Spirit guidance. Human reason and logic is not the ultimate measure for finding truth. Human reason guided by the Holy Spirit is a very valid means of arriving to truth. 

2 Your opinion is very respectable and very credible, but you must understand that you are not God, so not binding when talking about people's salvation.

3 there is a lot of controversy in theological studies, and that is because we all come from a particular contextual situation.

The context most traditions do not talk about is the context of the Holy Spirit, (the real author of the Bible), and it just happens that He transcends any ethnicity, language, era, contextual situation, etc. That is why Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will guide you to truth, He never mentioned synchronical original language with human reason alone as the way. This is key and has to be clarified.

In the end each person has the right to choose what they decide to believe. It is a God given right. But is unethical to try to rule out other views just because they are in the minority or because they are in the fringe of the orthodoxy envelope.

If God confronts me as to my inquiry travel with the rationality He gave me, I can say I explored most, checked to see if things were so, and came to conclusions on my own as expected, and not just because I inherited a particular tradition, or because a human authority affirms that is the correct one.

Careful analysis of things of Theology is an undelegable task each one of us has to perform.

I have never said I have ultimate truth. But I get very glad when I meet persons that take theology serious and want to get to the truth. There are key topics to explore in that regard and is up to them to choose what they think is God's message.

We come from very different backgrounds. I was born in a Catholic environment. That is why I can relate to much of the good it has to offer. But being where I live exposed me to other traditions, and then I understood I needed to get serious and analyze what I believe to check it is so with respect to God's revealed truth.

Logos is a wonderful tool for that. Honesty in key prolegomena topics is of utmost importance, and transparent, well intentioned believers without an occult agenda, have to make that patent.

Kind regards.

Posts 540
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2018 3:42 AM

Hi Steven:

To me there is no issue. You come across to me as a genuine seeker of things Sacred for the edification of the Saints in Jesus Christ. My congratulations, and best wishes in your quest.

Merry Christmas (a little late) and happy new Year. 

Posts 3645
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2018 3:49 AM

Steven New:
I was curious which Starter Bundles do you think have the best additional resources I got the Silver Standard Package already

Well, it's a bit complicated to give a straight answer to this because the discounts vary depending on what you already have. This in turn influences how good a deal one may think this or that starter package to be. 

What I can say is that the higher the package you already own, the better deals the tradition-based starter packages (or even higher) packages can include. YOU need to look at each package, select "new to you" to view which resources you would gain and compare to cost. 

For instance, for me Bronze Reformed would be a sweet deal because for abou $50 I'd get two commentary sets (new covenant and mentor). That would be 27 commentary volumes otherwise costing around $450. I don't care about the other resources but someone else might. 

So, it's definitely worthwhile to take the time to examine those low costs packages and grab deals while the discounts still reflect the launch promotion. 

Posts 40
Steven New | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2018 11:40 PM

This is one reason I went with the orthodox starter.  I got like 80 new resources for $30.00  I don't know how long the upgrades will be on sale, but those starter packages are a great deal.  I hope to get one more starter package before they go off sale.

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