8.3 Beta 4: Fresh Installation-3

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 21 2019 4:06 AM

This was a repeat of the installation on Beta 3.

  1. Uninstalled 8.3 Beta 3 and deleted the Logos folder
  2. Started Installation of 8.3 Beta 4
    1. Chose Custom to D: drive
    2. Set Auto Download of Updates to NO
  3. Signed In
  4. "Preparing Library..." box appeared
  5. "Download Your Logos 8 Library" window appeared
    1. Chose Recommended 346/2640 resources @ 6.77 GB
    2. Set Auto Download of New Resources to NO (default)
    3. Click "Start download" button
    4. Step 1 - Preparing to Download
    5. Step 2 - Downloading 3.40 GB resources
    6. Step 2/3 - Preparing Library 
      1. needs a new step number
    7. Step 3 - Indexing
      1. Indexed 80 library resources out of 224 checked (224 also in Resources folder)
    8. Pressed button "Open Logos"
  6. Logos GUI was loaded
    1. The "Updated" notice states 85 resources and 139 datasets (224 total) + 166.8 MB updates available
    2. All resources = 2286  (2202 in v 8.2)
      1. Once again this is due to Hidden Resources (84)
      2. User metadata was present and correct! 
    3. On This device = 85
  7. Downloaded 166.8 MB
    1. Updated notice showed this was due to datasets (now 152)

The Recommended "curated" Library resources were the same ones as last time. There has to be a ZERO download option for those who can Scan needed resources AND a Dataset only option for those who want to select within the app. Is it true that the user only gets the datasets for which they are licensed?

The Hidden resources saga continues with a slight twist. The preview of the bible "Vulgate: Psalms Translated from the Hebrew and Variant Reading" states it is a Hidden resource, but it took some detective work to realise that it was was hidden under its Latin title (it comes from the Textual Variants collection).

User metadata is present and correct for all the resources that matter, so I can look forward to more useful guides and collections. I note that 77 of the Hidden resources had no Rating, whilst the remainder did have a Rating.

1373.Logos.zip

Why the extra 166.8 MB download (13 datasets) when they were loaded in one step last time?

Dave
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Dave Hooton:
1. needs a new step number

We have an open case for this, and are planning on working on it soon.

Dave Hooton:
this is due to Hidden Resources

We have an open case for this, and are planning on working on it soon.

Dave Hooton:
this was due to dataset
Why the extra 166.8 MB download when datasets were loaded in one step last time?

I believe these are newer datasets that weren't properly set up to be part of the initial download. There is a fallback mechanism that ensures they get download in case they are missed as part of the initial download. We'll make sure they get properly added to the list of resources for the initial download.

Dave Hooton:
There has to be a ZERO download option for those who can Scan needed resources

We absolutely recognize the value of this. However, until we have a mechanism for users to remove and download datasets within the application, we will not be implementing it. I have no information as to when or if this will happen.

Dave Hooton:
a Dataset only option for those who want to select within the app

I'll pass the idea along.

Dave Hooton:
Is it true that the user only gets the datasets for which they are licensed?

Yes, that's correct.

Dave Hooton:
The preview of the bible "Vulgate: Psalms Translated from the Hebrew and Variant Reading" states it is a Hidden resource, but it took some detective work to realise that it was was hidden under its Latin title

I don't really understand what you are reporting here. A screenshot or two might help.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 6:37 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
I believe these are newer datasets that weren't properly set up to be part of the initial download.

I edited my post to include a list of these datasets.

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
until we have a mechanism for users to remove and download datasets within the application, we will not be implementing it.

Please explain. The ZERO download is for users who have already selected their resources, and backed up the Resources folder, which includes their datasets. Scan does the rest when re-installing, or installing on another device.

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
The preview of the bible "Vulgate: Psalms Translated from the Hebrew and Variant Reading" states it is a Hidden resource, but it took some detective work to realise that it was was hidden under its Latin title

I don't really understand what you are reporting here. A screenshot or two might help.

The title in my Hidden Resources is "Biblia Sacra Vulgata: Psalmi iuxta Hebraicum et Varia Lectio". Why/how was it picked up with an English title?

Dave
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Dave Hooton:
Please explain. The ZERO download is for users who have already selected their resources, and backed up the Resources folder, which includes their datasets. Scan does the rest when re-installing, or installing on another device.

That's nice until you gain the license for a new dataset. Then you are left without a way to acquire the new dataset file. We aren't very interested in implementing a way that allows users with an average level of knowledge an easy way to shoot themselves in the foot.

Dave Hooton:
The title in my Hidden Resources is "Biblia Sacra Vulgata: Psalmi iuxta Hebraicum et Varia Lectio". Why/how was it picked up with an English title?

It's possible that when you hid this resource, the primary title was the Latin one, but the metadata was since changed, and the English title is now the primary one. The title is stored at the time you hide the resource so that we don't have to ask the server for the title when viewing your list of hidden resources. It might be an interesting test to unhide the resource, then hide it again and see if it shows the English title in your list of hidden resources.

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 12:51 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
Please explain. The ZERO download is for users who have already selected their resources, and backed up the Resources folder, which includes their datasets. Scan does the rest when re-installing, or installing on another device.

That's nice until you gain the license for a new dataset. Then you are left without a way to acquire the new dataset file. We aren't very interested in implementing a way that allows users with an average level of knowledge an easy way to shoot themselves in the foot..

 

True but if you added a "Update Datasets" or "Sync Licences" command like you have "Update Now" and "Update Resources", then you could do this fairly simply, I would imagine... most users will want anything new added to the install/update

I also would like a Zero resources option, I would even  go as far as to say would want 2 differing library sets on my 2 devices, but then that may mean more work for your programmers, but I can dream..

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

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DominicM:
2 differing library sets on my 2 devices

This is already supported.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 2:23 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
Please explain. The ZERO download is for users who have already selected their resources, and backed up the Resources folder, which includes their datasets. Scan does the rest when re-installing, or installing on another device.

That's nice until you gain the license for a new dataset. Then you are left without a way to acquire the new dataset file.

Going back to what you said earlier:

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
until we have a mechanism for users to remove and download datasets within the application, we will not be implementing it.

You appear to be saying that users of v. 8.3 can't add a new Feature Set after installing it with datasets? I thought the only issue was selectively downloading datasets. The ZERO download installation would be no different to what currently happens when users choose to cancel the download, or deselect Automatically Download Updates (Custom install), and then use the Scan command to complete the installation from a backup (Method 3). It would apply equally to users with selected library resources and those with a full installation.

Dominic raised an interesting question. How are we to understand the commands Update Now and Update Resources in v8.3? Will the latter no longer download missing datasets?

Dave
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Windows & Android

Posts 2066
LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:
You appear to be saying that users of v. 8.3 can't add a new Feature Set after installing it with datasets?

I am saying that users do not have the ability to manually control whether datasets are local or cloud. Currently, all datasets are considered local resources, and will be downloaded just like any other resource the user indicates should be a local resource. When new datasets are added to the account they will be automatically marked by the system to be downloaded as a local resource. There is no supported mechanism to remove these resources from the installation.

Older version of the application also downloaded all datasets, so this aspect of the application is unchanged from the old behavior. The new behavior allows users to prevent the download of non-dataset (only) resources.

If you consider that effectively, older version of the application operated as if all resources were considered to be marked as a local resource, then you should be able to extrapolate how update now and update resources will operate. They will operate as expected on all resources that have been marked to be local.

Dave Hooton:
The ZERO download installation would be no different to what currently happens when users choose to cancel the download, or deselect Automatically Download Updates (Custom install), and then use the Scan command to complete the installation from a backup (Method 3).

The scenario you are requesting is not currently supported. The closest you can get (I think) is to hit the "x" button up in the corner of the window when the initial bundle of resources is downloading. Then restart the application, cancel the download or deselect Automatically Download Updates, select the unwanted resources in your library and "Remove" them. Then use the Scan command to add the desired resources. Then restart the application.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 12:37 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
Older version of the application also downloaded all datasets, so this aspect of the application is unchanged from the old behavior.

I think you just explained that the ZERO download proposal would allow the same type of installation as older versions with Auto Download Updates set to NO (Custom option). When Scan is then used, it will discover all the licensed library resources and datasets in the backup folder.

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
The scenario you are requesting is not currently supported.

Which is why it is a suggestion/proposal, as nobody wants a convoluted hack to get around the current method. The sets of library resources that are currently selectable are just not good enough, and waste a lot of time. If one has to re-install, why go through the lengthy selection process again? An alternative is Datasets Only (selection isn't an issue), where the user can select their own library resources or scan them in.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 12:59 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
It might be an interesting test to unhide the resource, then hide it again and see if it shows the English title in your list of hidden resources.

It was restored with the English title, and it now hidden with the English title.

Dave
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Windows & Android

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