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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 21 2019 7:14 AM

I am not sure this qualifies as a bug, since it is working as designed. It is not unique to the Beta version either, but that is what I am running.

When notes are made in workflows, a note indicator is inserted every time a new note field is populated. As shown in the screen shot, a work  flow that incorporates a number of note fields can quickly overwhelm the resource display. I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.

I am not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a single note indicator could be created when the workflow notebook is generated, rather than for each note field.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 12:50 PM

I have quit using workflow notes for various reasons but this is the biggie.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 1:15 PM

David Taylor Jr:

I have quit using workflow notes for various reasons but this is the biggie.

I may have to as well, at least until a solution to this can be developed. It would also be nice to have the tool bar when entering notes in a workflow. Remembering all the RTF Keyboard commands not east for an old man...I meant me, not Jack Wink 

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2019 10:36 PM

I too am stuck. Creating a custom workflow (for what I need it to do) is not possible until at least the first 4-5 items (1.Multiple Note Support, 2.Option to specify Commentary Collection, 3.Allow Defining of Note Attributes, 4.Option to specify a resource for “Read” step, & 5.Project Name Field) in this list get implemented.

#1 I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage, and #3 would allow you to specify no icon on minor/subsequent notes.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 5:53 AM

Reuben Helmuth:
#1 I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage, and #3 would allow you to specify no icon on minor/subsequent notes.

Yes

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:20 PM

Reuben Helmuth:
1.Multiple Note Support... I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage

Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements, but (unless I misunderstand your particular proposal) I don't think this would solve of the problem of having multiple note icons at the beginning of the passage range in the resource.

Today, every workflow note is anchored to

  1. The unique question/response field 
  2. The workflow key (the Bible reference, lemma, etc., on which you are running the workflow)

#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time soon (if at all). 

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:25 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time (if at all). 

This point alone will keep me from ever using notes in the Workflow tool....

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:35 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Reuben Helmuth:
1.Multiple Note Support... I think would go a long way in alleviating this problems since the notes could be scattered through the passage

Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements, but (unless I misunderstand your particular proposal) I don't think this would solve of the problem of having multiple note icons at the beginning of the passage range in the resource.

Today, every workflow note is anchored to

  1. The unique question/response field 
  2. The workflow key (the Bible reference, lemma, etc., on which you are running the workflow)

#2 means that every note, taken at any point through the workflow, will always be anchored to the entire reference range. Notes could not be "scattered through the passage" unless/until we support multiple keys per workflow-- which has very tricky design concerns, and isn't likely any time (if at all). 

Thanks for weighing in Adam. Understanding that multiple note support would not solve the issue of multiple note anchors appearing at the beginning of the passage, is there a solution in the foreseeable that will address the issue? Perhaps an option not to show the indicator in the drop down that enables the note to be deleted from the workflow.  

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:36 PM

Fredc:
When notes are made in workflows, a note indicator is inserted every time a new note field is populated. As shown in the screen shot, a workflow that incorporates a number of note fields can quickly overwhelm the resource display. 

This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table: 

  1. Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location. 
  2. Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that. 
  3. More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
  4. Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow. 

Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you? 

Fredc:
I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.

I'm not sure I follow your meaning. If you mean you don't know which notebook a note belongs to, we are working on solving that in 8.4.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:40 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table: 

  1. Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location. 
  2. Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that. 
  3. More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
  4. Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow. 

Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you? 

Honestly out of those options probably number 4.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:56 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Fredc:
I realize that I can turn that notebook off in the visual filters menu, however then there is no indication in the resource that a note for that passage exists.

I'm not sure I follow your meaning. If you mean you don't know which notebook a note belongs to, we are working on solving that in 8.4.

No. No I mean that if my notes are made in a workflow it inserts a note indicator for each separate Question / Answer item in the workflow at the beginning of the related passage in my open bibles, commentaries, or other versified resource. If I turn that Notebook off in the Visual Filter menu for that resource, then there is nothing to indicate a not has been made for that passage in resource itself.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table: 

  1. Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location. 
  2. Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that. 
  3. More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
  4. Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow. 

Do any (or any combination) of these appeal to you? 

I like #2, and that might be the easiest one to implement. Of course I'm a preacher, not a developer so I could be wrong. #1 is appealing, but how would that affect notes made apart from a workflow? For example, if I made 10 notes on a passage in a workflow document, there would be a single indicator that would give me some sort of visual count. If I click the indicator, I assume it would open the notes in that workflow notebook. But suppose in other reading or study I make a note on the same passage. Would the program realize that note was being made apart from the workflow and give me a second indicator that would open to to that note?

IMHO #3 is always good. I will never turn down the opportunity to have more control over anything. However, in developing more control, If you could somehow code something that will make the software do want I want it to do, instead of doing what I tell it to do, that would be awesomeWink

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 4:59 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

This is a problem we are considering how to solve. There are several ideas on the table: 

  1. Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location. 
  2. Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that. 
  3. More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)
  4. Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow. 

My choice is #4 AND #1 ... because (a) I had the problem of long strings of note tags in L7 as well where the notes were independent of each other and I needed the ability to control which showed esp. in teaching contexts and (b) because workflows are something that in a teaching situation I need to be able to show/not show.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 5:01 PM

MJ. Smith:
My choice is #4 AND #1 ... because (a) I had the problem of long strings of note tags in L7 as well where the notes were independent of each other and I needed the ability to control which showed esp. in teaching contexts and (b) because workflows are something that in a teaching situation I need to be able to show/not show.

#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 5:09 PM

David Taylor Jr:
#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that.

It hadn't occurred to me that it might be implemented like that. I envisioned 4 notes appearing in the center column from which I picked the applicable one. 

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 22 2019 5:11 PM

MJ. Smith:

David Taylor Jr:
#1 would be tricky. I wouldn't want the current behavior if there are multiple annotations on a verse and I hit open annotations and like 4 instances of the Notes Tool opens. Terrible design on that.

It hadn't occurred to me that it might be implemented like that. I envisioned 4 notes appearing in the center column from which I picked the applicable one.

That is what I hope the change the current open annotations behavior to as well. I hate the current implementation.

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2019 4:36 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Multiple note support is on our list for workflows improvements, 

That's good to hear!  I think, however, that you have misunderstood my proposal. A key element of my “multiple note support“ proposal is the ability to choose the anchor point at the time of note creation. I’m fine with anchoring to the workflow key by default, but definitely do not want that behavior  forced upon the user. It is crucial to be able to select a portion of text and create the note on that.  In other words do not force me to anchor to the workflow key. 

 I am trying to write this response on a phone with very poor connection currently so I apologize for the inability to better demonstrate what I mean. If this is not clear, I will try to clarify next week.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2019 6:55 AM

Reuben Helmuth:
That's good to hear!  I think, however, that you have misunderstood my proposal. A key element of my “multiple note support“ proposal is the ability to choose the anchor point at the time of note creation. I’m fine with anchoring to the workflow key by default, but definitely do not want that behavior  forced upon the user. It is crucial to be able to select a portion of text and create the note on that.  In other words do not force me to anchor to the workflow key. 

Yes, yes, yes, YESSSSSSS! 

The ability to choose specific ranges within the passage of the workflow is key.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2019 11:49 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

  1. Collapse all note icons (of the same style and color?) on the same reference into a single icon with a number to represent the count of notes in that location. 

This is my preferred option, but only if you can develop a UI which means I can still hover over the individual notes that have been collapsed together. Perhaps clicking on the collapsed note could then uncollapse them before re-collapsing a few seconds after I move my mouse away?

An alternative would be to create a super-pop up that contains all the questions/answers for the entire workflow. That would work for me.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Default to no icon for workflow notes; or a note icon for the first note in a workflow, and none after that. 

I definitely don't want this. I want to be able to see all my workflow notes. One of the things that makes workflow most valuable to me is that my work in answering the questions resurfaces often.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
More user control over note icon in the workflow (on the instance; alternatively on the editor, Reuben's #3)

I don't think this particularly would help me. Same issue as (2).

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Create Workflows visual filter to turn off all notes anchored to a workflow. 

Regardless of anything else, this would be useful. But as an addition, not on it's own.

That said, if you didn't create a new notebook for every workflow (which is completely unnecessary and clutters up my notebooks), then you wouldn't need to develop this feature at all. We could just turn off the 'Workflow' notebook, as we can do at the moment.

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