Removing the apocrypha...

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This post has 41 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 3 2019 4:28 AM

Hi all, I want to get rid of references to the apocrypha. When I do searches it always seems to pop up. While I could probably come up with some fancy search terms to exclude it, it seems like Logos is bent in a direction that puts the apocrypha on a level that's equal to the rest of the bible. To me, it definitely isn't. Ages ago a guy asked about this and someone from Logos said they had no idea what would happen in regards to it.

Can anyone comment on this?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 4:56 AM

I'm not sure what you're trying to eliminate.

If you don't want a bible reference to the apocrypha to return a verse, then you'd have to hide bibles which contain apocryphal books.

If you don't want to see any search results from books which reference an apocryphal book, you'd have to find those books and hide them.

If you're referring to something else, you'd have give a specific search example, and point out what you don't want to show up.

Joel:
it seems like Logos is bent in a direction that puts the apocrypha on a level that's equal to the rest of the bible. To me, it definitely isn't.

FL appropriately doesn't cater to one particular set of beliefs, however this forum wouldn't be the right place to debate views about beliefs or denominations, per the forum guidelines.

Posts 1103
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 4:59 AM

If you're referring to Bible search results, you shouldn't get hits from the Apocrypha unless you're searching a version that includes it.

If you're wanting to search a version that does have it, like the NRSV, make sure you select the range "Old and New Testament" instead of entire Bible.

Not sure what you might be needing beyond that.

Posts 324
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:00 AM

Joel:

Can anyone comment on this?

This has always been weird to me as well. I understand that if you search just one Bible it won't show apocryphal results as long as the Bible(s) you search don't have those included (in the Verses section). But, no matter how you set your filters (even Gen-Rev) it will show apocryphal results in the Fuzzy Bible section. This is a weird in functionality and weird that Logos (not Verbum) would not default just to the 66 book canon of Gen-Rev in both.

Posts 622
Sascha Andreas John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:01 AM

Hey Joel

OK first for understanding. You do a search and don't want apocrypha within the Search? Or you wanna get rit of all apocrypha in your Libary?

So 

1) simple search in a Bible without apocrypha

2) Do a search just in OT/NT

3) create a Collection where you exclude the Apocrypha

if you wanna get rid of all Apocrypha simple delete them

There is one Point to think About. The Apocrypha are in the Septuaginta and this is the BIble of the First Christians and the Church Fathers….dont'care About Church Fathers? You should they created what you believe ;-) So if you wanna get rid of Apocrypha you also get rid of them.

Hope this helps you 

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:04 AM

Thanks all for the replies...

Andrew, that's exactly what I found. As someone who would prefer to have the apocryphal works as a "once in a blue moon" reference, having them pop up all the time by default is quite frustrating, especially considering how otherwise helpful the fuzzy search is.

Posts 622
Sascha Andreas John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:08 AM

Andrew are you shure your Translation has no Apokrypha ...if I run your search I don't get Apokrypha

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Sascha Andreas John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:10 AM

even if I search all Bibles...seems I have to include them first

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:15 AM

Sascha Andreas John, I want to search the bible and not have the apocrypha scriptures show up. As Andrew pointed out, this isn't as easy as clicking OT or NT. Creating collections and whatnot just to do a basic bible search is a huge waste of time.

To be honest Sascha Andreas John, I don't especially care what the early church fathers used. The apocryphal works are interesting as reference, but that's all they are to me. For a basic bible search there's no search option for 'exclude apocrypha', and from what I've seen the fuzzy search always includes them.

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Sascha Andreas John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:21 AM

I agree after testing with another Phrase...this should not happen.

How About the inline search...as I understand you just use one Bible anyway?

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:24 AM
Thanks for testing... I use a few bibles. I guess I could use inline, or a bible without the apocrypha. Those are definitely workarounds. That said, how do we get this thing looked into by the Logos team? If this is a challenging thing to do on the desktop, I assume it's impossible to do on mobile.
Posts 324
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:24 AM

Sascha Andreas John:

even if I search all Bibles...seems I have to include them first

Right, so what I am referring to (looking at your screenshot) is the "Unscharfe Suche" section which only works if you are connected to internet. You can see that in my screenshot, the "Fuzzy Search" has apocryphal results even though I was filtering them out. Which, I do like to search those books. But, it's just weird that it is by default in Faithlife's Protestant version of their products.

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Sascha Andreas John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:28 AM

thanks andrew

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Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 5:34 AM

Sascha Andreas John:

thanks andrew

YesYes

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 7:00 AM

Andrew Biddinger:
the "Fuzzy Search" has apocryphal results even though I was filtering them out

Since the Fuzzy Bible Search is run on Logos servers, it searches their collection of all bibles (even ones we don't own), some of which happen to include apocrypha.

Filtering isn't performed on fuzzy results, since the client search range is not supplied to the remote fuzzy search.

I don't know if anyone has suggested that improvement or not, or whether it would be easy for FL to implement.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 7:40 AM

PetahChristian:
I don't know if anyone has suggested that improvement or not, or whether it would be easy for FL to implement.

It has been raised - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/148370/922009.aspx#922009 - but no commitment as to when / if it will be done last I saw.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 7:42 AM

Thanks, Graham!

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 8:46 AM
That's the link I was referring to at the start of the thread. It sounds like it's sitting at the very bottom of the, "who knows what will happen with these ideas" list, if it's even on there. It can't be that difficult a thing to implement. A request doesn't need to be sent to the server - the returned results can be filtered on the client's computer, according to the settings.
Posts 1703
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 8:58 AM

In the recesses of my frequently faulty memory, there's recollection of a Program Setting in Logos to filter out the Apocrypha. It would have been in the earlyish days of my use, probably L4, but maybe L3. I never used the filter (irrespective of my theological view), and I don't remember when it fell away.

Anyone else remember this?

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 1836
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 9:16 AM

Robert M. Warren:
a Program Setting in Logos to filter out the Apocrypha.

I also recall a toggle in the program settings between a shorter canon (66 books) and a fuller canon (since there are various traditions of deutero-canonical books).  I seem to recall that Logos used to default to a 66 book canon in searches, where Verbum defaults to a larger canon. Does one's default (highest prioritized) Bible translation do this? I would value an MVP's clarification.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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