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Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 19 2019 11:12 PM

John Goodman:

T-Bone a sock puppet?! 15 posts and you've been around for years eh.

Nah, just a former Faithlife employee on the Mobile team. Yes, I've been around for nearly 8 years and have tried to help you many times in the past. Unfortunately I've only got 4,264 posts since I stopped posting in mid-2017. Could have been over 7,000 by now but the number of posts matters less than the content of them (to me, anyway). And no, I don't get paid for posting anything here.

Here's an old post that explains why VoiceOver support broke on iOS as a result of implementing iOS scrolling view, and you were on the thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97152.aspx .  As I mentioned in this thread "VoiceOver support was unintentionally dropped (not intentionally removed) as a result of an updated display implementation and that bug was fixed."

Just trying to correct misinformation whenever I see it since there is a lot of it out there.

Posts 1747
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 2:06 AM

Robert M. Warren:
rejects the APK or prevents log in to the reinstalled app.

That summarizes my two experiences trying to side-load old Logos Android APKs.

'Kill-swith' in my reply in the older thread meant what the context clearly states: a prevention of installation of the old APK.

T-Bone:
3. You can call Faithlife Customer support and they may be able to work with on a case-by-case basis to "get back"

'You can call Customer Service and they might help you get it back' is not the same as, and in fact is totally opposite to, 'you won't be able to get it back' or 'no support'.

Posts 1033
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 2:28 AM

T-Bone, glad you aren't a sock puppet;) but my statement was not false... perhaps not quite accurate enough but voiceover support was removed by faithlife and yes it was linked to an update. It definitely took some careful persuasion that this was a regression and the impact of audiobook sales was brought up by faithlife. I think it is a real disappointment that accessibility features get conflated with audio books. I make extensive use of both.

The problem is, I can see just how close to wonderful Logos is for accessibility and how it opens up a world of possibility for certain people. I do believe it is low hanging fruit that could be a tremendous blessing to many folks and I can't be sure but I expect would win some extra sales that would be worth it compared to the development outlay.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 3:54 AM

Robert M. Warren:

Robert M. Warren:
rejects the APK or prevents log in to the reinstalled app.

That summarizes my two experiences trying to side-load old Logos Android APKs.

'Kill-swith' in my reply in the older thread meant what the context clearly states: a prevention of installation of the old APK.

T-Bone:
3. You can call Faithlife Customer support and they may be able to work with on a case-by-case basis to "get back"

'You can call Customer Service and they might help you get it back' is not the same as, and in fact is totally opposite to, 'you won't be able to get it back' or 'no support'.

- "Kill switch" doesn't mean what you think it does.
- Side loading apk's isn't supported (and never was). I was just trying to help you.
- How valuable is your time in dollars per hour?
- Would it be more profitable for you to keep complaining about things that you can't change, or just purchase a new device?

Posts 1747
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 4:49 AM

T-Bone:
Would it be more profitable for you to keep complaining about things that you can't change, or just purchase a new device?

No, my mission in life to to provide catharsis opportunities for exers who finally have a chance to unload on the dumb ol' users.

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 5:28 AM

  

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 5:28 AM

John Goodman:
but my statement was not false... perhaps not quite accurate enough but voiceover support was removed by faithlife and yes it was linked to an update.

Actually, your statement was false. It seems you don't know much about how things work.

VoiceOver support was never "removed" by Faithlife. A new display implementation (Scrolling View) was coded and VoiceOver support wasn't immediately supported in Scrolling View.

VoiceOver support was never "removed" from the existing default Paging View implementation and VoiceOver support still worked as expected while using Paging View.

When Scrolling View became the default display setting it turned out that VoiceOver didn't work - not because it was "removed" from Scrolling VIew but because some new development work was needed to make VoiceOver work in Scrolling View.

In short, VoiceOver support wasn't "removed" from Scrolling View because the code wasn't written yet. One can't "remove" non-existing code.

John Goodman:
It definitely took some careful persuasion that this was a regression


No, it didn't. It wasn't a regression because the code to implement VoiceOver while in Scrolling View didn't exist yet.

John Goodman:
the impact of audiobook sales was brought up by faithlife.


When and where was this brought up by Faithlife? Links, emails, etc? I don't believe you and I need some proof. 

John Goodman:
The problem is, I can see just how close to wonderful Logos is for accessibility and how it opens up a world of possibility for certain people. I do believe it is low hanging fruit that could be a tremendous blessing to many folks and I can't be sure but I expect would win some extra sales that would be worth it compared to the development outlay.


Your dreams are simply not grounded in reality and Accessibility is anything but low hanging fruit. Sorry, just telling you the truth.

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 5:30 AM

John Goodman:
but my statement was not false... perhaps not quite accurate enough but voiceover support was removed by faithlife and yes it was linked to an update.

Actually, your statement was false.

VoiceOver support was never "removed" by Faithlife. A new display implementation (Scrolling View) was coded and VoiceOver support wasn't immediately supported in Scrolling View.

VoiceOver support was never "removed" from the existing default Paging View implementation and VoiceOver support still worked as expected while using Paging View.

When Scrolling View became the default display setting it turned out that VoiceOver didn't work - not because it was "removed" from Scrolling View but because some new development work was needed to make VoiceOver work in Scrolling View.

In short, VoiceOver support wasn't "removed" from Scrolling View because the code wasn't written yet. One can't "remove" non-existing code.

John Goodman:
It definitely took some careful persuasion that this was a regression

No, it didn't. It wasn't a regression because the code to implement VoiceOver while in Scrolling View didn't exist yet.

John Goodman:
the impact of audiobook sales was brought up by faithlife.

When and where was this brought up by Faithlife? Links, emails, etc?

John Goodman:
The problem is, I can see just how close to wonderful Logos is for accessibility and how it opens up a world of possibility for certain people. I do believe it is low hanging fruit that could be a tremendous blessing to many folks and I can't be sure but I expect would win some extra sales that would be worth it compared to the development outlay.

Accessibility is anything but low hanging fruit. Sorry, just telling you the truth.

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 5:48 AM

Robert M. Warren:

T-Bone:
Would it be more profitable for you to keep complaining about things that you can't change, or just purchase a new device?

No, my mission in life to to provide catharsis opportunities for exers who finally have a chance to unload on the dumb ol' users.



Okay. If it's more profitable for you to keep complaining about things that you can't change, good luck.


Posts 28243
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 6:30 AM

T-Bone:
Nah, just a former Faithlife employee on the Mobile team. Yes, I've been around for nearly 8 years and have tried to help you many times in the past. Unfortunately I've only got 4,264 posts since I stopped posting in mid-2017. Could have been over 7,000 by now but the number of posts matters less than the content of them (to me, anyway). And no, I don't get paid for posting anything here.

Thanks for clarifying who you are. You have been very helpful in the past, but your "T-Bone" persona hasn't nearly been quite as helpful. It isn't a good look for you or FL. Getting clarification from a former employee could be very helpful in the forums. I encourage you to stick around. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 1033
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 8:41 AM

T-Bone can you not appreciate that I'm simply advocating for a feature and you are being quite antagonistic. Do you really want to keep asserting that faithlife, as a company that has such an incredible track record and feature set for books, can't manage to pipe the text to the android speech api? Are you trying to help their PR? It's just crazy.

I totally accept that it isn't currently a priority. I'm advocating for it. Advocacy has worked on other occasions. See our success with wine on linux. I appreciate that faithlife is a company that listens with a leader who listens. Why not entertain yourself with a good book instead?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 9:09 AM

John Goodman:
T-Bone can you not appreciate that I'm simply advocating for a feature

Yes, I can appreciate it.

John Goodman:
and you are being quite antagonistic.

No, I'm simply being realistic.

John Goodman:
Do you really want to keep asserting that faithlife, as a company that has such an incredible track record and feature set for books, can't manage to pipe the text to the android speech api? Are you trying to help their PR? It's just crazy.

No, what I want doesn't matter and I'm simply stating the facts. You seem to think this is a simple thing (and it's silly or "daft" that this hasn't yet been implemented)!. You've implied that Faithlife developers are either liars or stupid and I reject your implications.

John Goodman:
I totally accept that it isn't currently a priority. I'm advocating for it. Advocacy has worked on other occasions.


Yes, please keep advocating for it.

John Goodman:
Advocacy has worked on other occasions. See our success with wine on linux.


Faithlife has nothing to do with wine or linux.

Posts 1033
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 9:11 AM

Read the linux thread... you'll understand. I'm saying the explanation was daft. The devs are obviously quite skilled.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 61
T-Bone | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 20 2019 8:28 PM

John Goodman:
Read the linux thread... you'll understand.

I’ve read the Linux thread. For nearly a decade a small number of users begged Faithlife to create Logos for Linux but it was simply wasn’t (and still isn’t) a financially viable solution. Eventually Wine got better and users found a workaround by running the Windows version of Logos - that’s great! But Faithlife had nothing to do with it.

John Goodman:
I'm saying the explanation was daft. The devs are obviously quite skilled.

The explanation was given by a developer, in fact one of the smartest Android developers I’ve every worked with. Drew and I shared an office at that time. At this point I expect an extremely detailed 50 page treatise on the matter still wouldn’t convince you anything. So, believe whatever you want.

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