Logos 8 Messianic Jewish Base Packages - Now Available!

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This post has 77 Replies | 9 Followers

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 20 2019 4:14 PM

Daniel Motley (Faithlife):

I am indeed excited to announce the launch of the Messianic Jewish Products forum. Enjoy!

https://community.logos.com/forums/151.aspx

Yes

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 21 2019 9:01 AM

Daniel Motley (Faithlife):

SineNomine:

Daniel Motley (Faithlife):
We're excited to announce the launch of the Logos 8 Messianic Jewish base packages, filled with resources to help your Bible study from a Messianic Jewish perspective.

Daniel, I'm hoping you're also excited to announce the launch of the Messianic Jewish Products forum, ASAP.

I am indeed excited to announce the launch of the Messianic Jewish Products forum. Enjoy!

https://community.logos.com/forums/151.aspx

Great! I'm glad it was created so quickly.

Please move it up into the right spot in the list of forums. Thanks!

Posts 6222
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 21 2019 4:32 PM

It was created fast, but ZERO posts as of now! Wow 😲 You’d think all the MJ’s would go running to post and at least say thank you for the new BP’s and their own MJ forum.

DAL

Posts 647
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 22 2019 7:48 AM

Manuel Maria:

Are the packages going to be integrated into the books comparison tool?

Thanks.

Looks like we're still waiting on this.

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 9:43 AM

Mark Barnes:

Joseph Turner:
How do you figure this Mark?  When I look at the percentages quoted, I save 74% off Starter and Bronze, 78% off Silver, 81% off Gold, 85% off Platinum, and then 78% off Diamond.  Would it not be best for me to buy Platinum and then Diamond?  Please keep in mind that I teach English and not math!

The discount that matters is not your dynamic pricing discount, but the cost of the base package compared to the cost of buying all the resources individually. Usually that figure is around 90%. For example, Gold has $11,199.30 for $950, a discount rate of 91.52%. 

The discount rates for each Messianic Jewish package is as follows:

  • Starter is 97.13%
  • Bronze is 95.46%
  • Silver is 92.83%.
  • Gold is 91.52%.
  • Platinum is 91.26%
  • Diamond is 91.15%

You should always buy packages in order of this discount level.

Thanks for this Mark. I had suspected this to be the case but didn't know how to figure it out, thanks!

I just bought the starter, then the bronze and can also confirm the others are dropping more than what I've spent.  I have a question though. Shouldn't the percentages be based on what the actual discount is to the individual buying?

For example, the percentages you listed above are for someone who doesn't own any of the products right?  But wouldn't my personal "discount" on Gold for example be based on the Total price of the items I don't have already and the total price logos lists those for?  You list Gold as $11,199.30 list price, and Logos sells for $950 right now. So for me, shouldn't I use the personal listed cost for items in the package (based on clicking "Hide owned books", it shows at the bottom the total LIST price for the new to me books in Gold: $3,470 then based on Dynamic price for me $241 I'd get 93% discount for Gold.  I know you said not to use the dynamic price but isn't it correct if we use dynamic price based on the new to me total price across the board for comparison? So if I did the Dynamic vs new to me percentage for the remaining packages and just compared those to each other would that work?

If you agree this is correct my follow up is....using this method Platinum discount for me is 93.27% while the gold is just 93.05% silver is 94.16%. So, if Platinum were my goal should I first get silver then hop right on my Platinum payment plan (since my custom gold discount is lower than my platinum)?

I have doubt so I'm asking.  Thanks again!

-Jeremiah

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 1:39 AM

Does anyone know how to delete posts?

I tried to delete my long post above answering about Mess.J. and Heb. roots but I can't.  I'm concerned it may be offensive to some from other traditions.  If anyone knows how we can delete our own posts please tell me or if an admin sees this please help.

I tried by reporting it as abuse and offering an explanation that it's my own post I want taken down.

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 1:46 AM

Look under "more" in the upper right of the post. There is a limited time that this option is available. Yeah, you did overdo it a bit on Luther for an ecumenical site.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 1:49 AM

There's a two-hour window for editing posts, but I can't remember if that also affects whether you can delete a post or not.

Since you already reported it, you might want to wait until an admin is online and handles it (probably during working hours at FL).

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 2:26 AM

Jeremiah:
But wouldn't my personal "discount" on Gold for example be based on the Total price of the items I don't have already and the total price logos lists those for?

Yes.

If you own 60% of the value of Gold, then you would expect a 60% discount. (Three or four years ago, Faithlife made a tweak in dynamic pricing which meant the maths isn't quite that straightforward. But it's near enough not to make a difference.) Because both the value of Gold and the price your pay drop by the same amount, that means the ratio between its value and cost would remain unchanged.

You're rightly observing that judging by the table on the product page, this doesn't seem to be the case. That's usually because the table isn't often slightly accurate. This can happen for a variety of reasons but is usually to do with pricing difference between buying as individual volumes and small collections. For example, when I look at Verbum Academico, it tells me the total value of books sold separately is $3,224.48, and they're asking for $275.25, a discount of 91.46%. If I look at the page when I'm not logged in, I get a discount of 91.8%.

It's not 100% clear why this discrepancy takes place. I suspect it's due to the small number of resources that displays a zero value to the user because they cannot be purchased, but are actually assigned a value in the backend that is used to calculating dynamic pricing. The zero value introduces a very slight error in the original calculation, which is then corrected if you own the resource in question and it's removed from the calculations. However, that's guesswork on my part.

If I'm right, there's no easy way of knowing which calculation will be more accurate. In theory, it should be the one that has the smallest percentage of zero-value products that aren't really zero value (a few, such as the Lexham Bible Dictionary, really are zero-value). So if the standard package has 20 zero value products out of 200, and your dynamic pricing has 5 zero-value products out of 100, then calculating the ratio based on your dynamic pricing is likely to be slightly more accurate. But we're in the realm of speculation now.

In your place, having done the calculations, I'd be inclined to buy in the order that you've calculated. However, if you do that, you'll never know! If you want your curiosity to be satisfied, the only way to do it is to buy Silver, then Gold, then Platinum, and watch carefully what the price drop on Platinum is. If the drop on Platinum is significantly less what you've spent on Gold, you could always ask for a refund. If it's only slightly less, it will be money well-spent in satisfying your curiosity (and mine)! And if the price drop is more than you've spent, you've both saved money and answered your own question. What have you got to lose ;-)?

Posts 3112
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 6:35 AM

Jeremiah:

Does anyone know how to delete posts?

I tried to delete my long post above answering about Mess.J. and Heb. roots but I can't.  I'm concerned it may be offensive to some from other traditions.  If anyone knows how we can delete our own posts please tell me or if an admin sees this please help.

I tried by reporting it as abuse and offering an explanation that it's my own post I want taken down.

I didn't find it offensive at all and found it quite helpful.  It is a shame you took it down but I'm sure others might feel differently as it seems everyone gets offended about something in today's times.  Glad I read it before you took it down.  Thank you for explaining those 3 different groups.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 7:21 AM

Mattillo:
I didn't find it offensive at all and found it quite helpful.

I read it and found it useful, but I think the tone and the hard division between Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians might have offended some. I didn't ask for it to be taken down, but I'm glad Jeremiah thought better of it. That said, there's certainly still room for a similar post from a more neutral perspective.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 3:03 PM

I found the tone of the post on Martin Luther to be a bit beyond offensive. But Jeremiah is clearly knowledgeable with much to share. I look forward to seeing more of his posts in less divisive language.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 6222
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 5:43 PM

Mattillo:

I didn't find it offensive at all and found it quite helpful.

People will always get offended no matter what. I wouldn’t worry about! Let them be! As an old wise man said 👍😁👌

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 7:18 PM

MJ. Smith:

I found the tone of the post on Martin Luther to be a bit beyond offensive. But Jeremiah is clearly knowledgeable with much to share. I look forward to seeing more of his posts in less divisive language.

I'm sorry I offended you MJ.  

I thought since we were in the forum relating to Jewish Base packages and someone asked how Jews felt about the reformers, that was the time to share some facts not taught about Luther at seminary.  My thinking was we're here, not in the Lutheran base package forum and If someone knew of a Rabbi who was my hero who incited Jews to murder some other ethnicity, and then the murders actually happened per request using that Rav as justification, I'd want to know about it so I could demote him from hero status right away. (hope you understand my thinking on this, I'd never go over to a forum on about a Lutheran base package and present people with this information!)

Someone in the Messianic Jewish forum was asking how Jews felt about the reformers so I figured I'd lay it out in this specific forum.  I didn't say anything untrue about Luther, I've read parts of his work "on the Jews and their Lies" in the original German.  I know though it's hard to read things we don't like about people who have been propped up traditionally as heroes and I'm sure you weren't expecting to be slapped in the face with those data in this forum so I apologize for upsetting you.  I hope after reading this you'll understand better why I brought up those things about him in the Messianic Jewish base package forum.

For hurting you MJ though, I'm truly sorry.  I hope you will understand why I think it's important to leave the post up in this particular forum though.

peace

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 7:26 PM

Thanks Mark!

Well I can probably spring for Silver next month.  Regarding Gold and beyond I'll need to go payment plan so I'm not sure if I'll be able to do one at a time.  Do you think Logos is OK about adjusting payment plans? Say I get Gold, then when I can swing the down payment for Plat. I ask a rep to consolidate a new payment plan?  Is there a limit to how many times someone can "add items" to a payment plan?

I'm very grateful for your tips so far.  I've saved close to $70 and that goes a long way here in the Philippines!

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 7:40 PM

Jeremiah:
I'm sorry I offended you MJ.

Thanks for the apology. I happen to not be a fan of Martin Luther myself - I just happen to think one needs to show understanding for the degree to which he, like all of us, is a product of his time. And one cannot hold him responsible for the abuse of his work centuries after his death. The product line forums are read by anyone interested in resources from that tradition - I read Orthodox for patristics, Anglican for liturgy, Lutheran for Bible study, Catholic for theology and Jewish for historical perspective. I am currently reading MJ so I'll have an understanding of what sort of user is represented by this theological stream.

The forum guidelines for tone and content are:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

  1. Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
  2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.
  3. Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.
  4. Please do not use our forums to
    • sell or give away anything or link to anything you’re selling or giving away—including Logos products
    • promote or link to competitors
    • point people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products
    • advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable)
    • post Logos Coupon Codes. If you are aware of a special promotion Logos is running online, you are welcome to link directly to the promotion.
  5. Please search before posting. It’s likely that someone has already asked your question.
  6. Please help others follow these guidelines. If the problems continue after you’ve given a gentle reminder of these expectations, please click “Report Abuse” under “More” or send an email to forums@logos.com.

Thank you for your cooperation. Enjoy discussing and learning about Logos Bible Software.

I hope this helps you understand my negative reaction.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 8:05 PM

yes, I understand broad brushed forum conduct rules; I didn't think (at first) my post about Luther's historical writings would be considered controversial.

I agree with you that there are limits to which we can judge a person who lived in another era. Dostoevsky, for example, is one of my favorite authors, and a big reason I eventually learned Russian (though ironically I was never able to get through Dostoevsky in Russian!).  He was an antisemite, but since he didn't publish calls for murder, I still am able to see him as a Christian just misguided by his time.  There are some actions which move a spiritual author beyond the pale and elicit calls for murder is I think you'll agree a fair differentiating factor. There's a line.

Thanks for making peace! :)

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 308
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 8:15 PM

Here's a gentler response to the person who asked how Jews feel about having writings from the Reformers in a base package.

The biggest culprit is Martin Luther.

I don't want to offend brothers/sisters from other traditions so I'll be gentle.

Some of Luther's writings published later in life call for violence against Jews.  Others in history took advantage of these writings to justify policy decisions.  Luther also desired to delete the books of James and Hebrews from the Apostolic Writings.  These books are very important to Messianic Jews; Hebrews is often translated in Messianic parlance as "the letter to the Messianic Jews" and James, aka Jacob, came across as very pro-Torah.

As a result, Messianic Jews do not appreciate Martin Luther nor find him very "spirit-filled" or spiritually discerning.  Good job on the whole indulgences thing though!

Hope this helps in understanding our perspective on that guy.  

Peace :)

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 8:27 PM

The issue isn’t whether Luther’s writings are controversial.

The issue is that controversial posts (about Luther’s views) don’t belong on any of the FL forums, including Messianic Jewish.

Thanks for understanding why the rules ask us to avoid debates, and keep the topics centered on Logos itself.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 8:38 PM

Jeremiah:

As a result, Messianic Jews do not appreciate Martin Luther nor find him very "spirit-filled" or spiritually discerning.  ...

Hope this helps in understanding our perspective on that guy.

I don’t believe that any group, Messianic Jewish or otherwise, believes the exact same thing. People within any denomination have (slightly?) different opinions and beliefs.

I understand that it is your perspective, but perhaps it shouldn’t be described as “our” perspective on “that guy?”

It also seems ironic. He speaks poorly of Jews, you speak poorly of him. What happened to ”love your enemies?”

This is why debates don’t belong here, because it perpetuates arguments about who or what is acceptable (typically in our eyes, not from God’s perspective).

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