Book of Jasher... Apocrypha?

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This post has 19 Replies | 2 Followers

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jun 30 2019 6:02 AM

 Please forgive my ignorance but I was curious why this site lists the above as an apocryphal book but I don't see it in any of my logos as Apocrypha books? I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet 😃

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm 

I stumbled into it reading about Babel and got pointed to Jasher chapter 9

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 6:41 AM

Jasher was mentioned in the OT, and in the 1800s (I think), someone wrote a decent looking Jasher!  So, indeed apocryphal, but technically pseudo (fake).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2089
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 6:43 AM

I'm equally ignorant but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible 

The Book of Jasher is mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18 and also referenced in 2 Timothy 3:8.[1] From the context in the Book of Samuel, it is implied that it was a collection of poetry. Several books have claimed to be this lost text, some of which are discounted as pseudepigrapha. Certain members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints secured the copyright to a particular English translation of one of these and republished it in 1887 in Salt Lake City[2].

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 6:58 AM

Interesting. I knew it was mentioned a few times but I thought the book was lost so I was surprised to see that this morning. I tried searching my library but didn't have the actual book in the link and I don't think I saw it in the logos catalogue... To my dictionaries next

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 7:36 AM

Logos does have several resources that list all the missing OT and NT ref'd books (plus subsequent fathers refs). Jasher was a bit player.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1578
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 10:04 AM

So do we have all of these Apocryphal Books like the Book of Jasher in Logos or Faithlife Ebooks????? And if we don't, why not?

Posts 173
Thomas Pape | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 11:23 AM

PB-Logos

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 11:38 AM

Thanks! I was planning to make my own but this saves me some time

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Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 7:36 PM

MY SUGGESTION FOR FAITHLIFE WOULD BE TO GET ALL OF KEN JOHNSON'S BOOKS IN LOGOS:

Ken Johnson was born in 1965 and became a Christian at the age of 12. He quickly realized there were differences in doctrine in various denominations and sought out to prove to himself the correct interpretation of these issues that divide Christians. After an intensive study of the first century church he sought to bring back the teaching of the disciples of the 12 apostles. He has authored numerous books and made ancient Jewish scrolls available to the English speaking world. He currently travels to churches inside the USA, speaking on these and other topics. 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 30 2019 9:23 PM

Kanute, where's the Christian College of Texas? Google seems to only know from Johnson's self-bio's.  Been to Texarkana many times ... never heard of it.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1578
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2019 6:49 PM

Denise I had the opportunity to ask Ken Johnson himself. He said that it was simply called "The Christian College of Texas" in Texarkana, back in the 80s. He told me that it is not there anymore

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 2 2019 3:37 PM

Kenute P. Curry:
So do we have all of these Apocryphal Books like the Book of Jasher in Logos or Faithlife Ebooks????? And if we don't, why not?

No, not all of them are available - especially those associated with the Oriental Orthodox churches where we do not necessarily have access to all of the canonical works, let alone apocryphal ones. I believe the same is true of some of the African Jewish canons as well but haven't checked recently.

Why not? Lack of sufficient numbers of scholars with the skills and interests to produce Western language editions/manuscripts of the text. It is only recently that Syriac materials began being explored.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 3 2019 2:28 AM

Denise:
Been to Texarkana many times ... never heard of it.

Interestingly, the site I use to detect phony credentials has not heard of it either - not closed, not purchased, not renamed ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26499
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 5 2019 10:12 PM

Mattillo:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm 

I stumbled into it reading about Babel and got pointed to Jasher chapter 9

I got interested in the Book of Jasher, so I compiled the PB from Wyn Laidig (above), which is based on this book. I also constructed a timeline of Adam to Shem based on the book of Genesis, and began to pick up some errors in Jasher.

  1. Jared was 62 vs.162 when Enoch was born (2:37) and Methuselah was 87 vs.187 when Lamech was born (Ch 3:13). Also, see LXX.
    1. If correct, they would impact the ages of Lamech & Noah elsewhere. However:-
      1. Lamech is correctly 56 when Adam died (Ch 3:14) --> else Lamech would have been 256.
      2. Noah is correctly 84 when Enosh died, and correctly 179 when Kenan (Cainan) died  (Ch 5:1, 2); and
      3. Noah is correctly 234 (Ch 5:3) when Mahalalel died.
  2. Lamech was 160 vs.168 when Seth died (Ch 4:9) --> a computational error?
  3. Lamech was 180 vs. 182 when Noah was born (Ch 4:11-14) --> 188 in LXX Gen 5:28
  4. Lamech was 770 vs. 777 when he died (Ch 5:20) --> 753 in LXX Gen 5:31
  5. Lamech died when Noah was 195 vs. 595 (Ch 5:19) --> a careless mistake.
    1. From the other dates (770 & 180), Noah would have to be 590
    2. Either way, Lamech died before his father (and within 10 years of the Flood).
  6. Jared died when Noah was 336 vs.366 (Ch 5:4) --> a computational error?
  7. Methuselah died at 960 vs. 969 (Ch 5:36) --> in the year of the Flood or 9 years before?
    1. Both the Bible timeline and Ch 6:1 imply that Methuselah died in the year of the Flood
  8. In Ch 5:1,  "Enoch" should be  "Enosh" ---> corrected in my PB.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 6 2019 6:30 AM

Wow that is interesting. Thank you Dave. Besides the one correction you made, any others that you saw that I should make to the original from Wyn?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 7 2019 6:01 AM

Other textual mistakes:

Content Ch 75 - "think it Time to..."
Content Ch 90 - various Caps
Ch 2:24 - "had withered away..." on a new line.
Ch 65:2  - "the counsellor*s..."
Ch 76:12  - "to bring forth Is rael..."

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 7 2019 5:26 PM

Dave Hooton:
Content Ch 75 - "think it Time to..."
Content Ch 90 - various Caps

On closer examination, these are clearly idiosyncratic to the document. Don't change them.

Dave Hooton:
Ch 65:2  - "the counsellor*s..."

There are 7 other occurrences. Look for counsellor* in the document.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 2
Eric Casteel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 7 2021 3:02 PM

MJ. Smith:

Denise:
Been to Texarkana many times ... never heard of it.

Interestingly, the site I use to detect phony credentials has not heard of it either - not closed, not purchased, not renamed ...

I'm curious as to what site you use to track down fake credentials?  (Apart from Google.)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 7 2021 3:51 PM

Eric Casteel:
I'm curious as to what site you use to track down fake credentials? 

Welcome to the forums. It was a couple of years ago, so I can't remember which sites I used. However, this site is not the place to be discussing Calvary Chapel's practices except in the context of Logos resources directly tied to Calvary Chapel. No problem except I will attach a copy of the forum guidelines as they are not necessarily easy to find.

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Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2
Eric Casteel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 7 2021 4:43 PM

Thanks, fixed.

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