ANNOUNCEMENT: End of support for Windows 7, Windows 8.1 & MacOS 10.11–10.13

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 12 2019 12:18 PM

Summary

On February 4, 2020, the operating systems below will enter Maintenance Support status

  • Windows 7
  • Windows 8.1
  • 32-bit versions of Windows 10
  • MacOS 10.11 "El Capitan"
  • MacOS 10.12 "Sierra"
  • MacOS 10.13 "High Sierra"

By the end of 2020, these operating systems will no longer be supported for Logos Bible Software. 

Background 

Microsoft has announced that Windows 7 will be "end of life" on January 14, 2020. While we don't anticipate any immediate problems using Logos on Windows 7, it will not be a priority to maintain backward compatibility with an operating system that is no longer supported by its provider. We will move Windows 7 to maintenance support status at the next scheduled version, 8.11 on February 4, 2020.

Furthermore, only a small segment of Logos users are running on the older operating systems named above. In order to develop and test the application more efficiently, all of these operating systems will enter maintenance support at the same time. 

What does "Maintenance Support" mean? 

Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them. 

If at any point we should discover that we are no longer able to ship updates to older operating systems, or some other serious issue arises that makes them incompatible with Logos, we will end support without further advanced notice. In any case, all of the operating systems above will be unsupported by the end of 2020. 

Read more about the Support Lifecyle.

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 12 2019 4:50 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Logos 8 will continue to receive updates, but we will no longer test the application on these operating systems, nor deliver bug fixes that exclusively affect them. 

The Table on the Free Support page implies no support for 'Old OS' in the Supported column (which applies to the App); which doesn't distinguish whether the "Old" is Maintenance or Unsupported. The above description of "Maintenance" for OS is clearer, but the Table implies that a Maintenance/Unsupported app could receive updates for "Old" OS!

By "Logos 8 will continue to receive updates", I think you mean (generally) that updated versions of a Supported/Maintenance App will still be shipped to a Maintenance OS; whereas you will not ship a Supported/Maintenance App to an Unsupported OS!?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 12 2019 6:41 PM

Thanks for the heads up on this. I'm one of those who is still using Windows 7 which I have enjoyed for many years. I know this is coming to an end soon which was expected at some point.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 13 2019 4:30 AM

By the way, if you still have Win7, see this reply to this thread (April, 2019) for information about upgrading to Win10 free:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/181032/1047105.aspx#1047105 

I had bought a couple of refurbished desktops that still had Win7 just after the free Win10 upgrade window had (officially) closed. I was happy to see that post. My experience with the upgrade was painless.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 7978
LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:

The Table on the Free Support page implies no support for 'Old OS' in the Supported column (which applies to the App)

Logos 8.11 is the last "Supported" release for Windows 7. Logos 8.12 will be a "Supported" release for Windows 10 and, if technically possible, a "Maintenance" release for Windows 7. As documented, "Maintenance" releases do have support for older OSes and are released to allow the latest resources to be read.

In the past, the "Supported" release was, say, Logos 7.4, and the "Maintenance" release was Logos 6.14 SR-4. In this deprecation plan, the same Logos 8.x release will be both "Supported" and "Maintenance" depending on the OS you try to run it on (and eventually that OS will be "Unsupported").

We're promising that Logos 8.11 will install on Windows 7; we're not promising anything after that. We feel this is friendlier than taking explicit steps to prevent Logos 8.12 from installing because the table "implies no support for 'Old OS'".

Dave Hooton:
which doesn't distinguish whether the "Old" is Maintenance or Unsupported.

I don't know what you mean by this.

Dave Hooton:
The above description of "Maintenance" for OS is clearer, but the Table implies that a Maintenance/Unsupported app could receive updates for "Old" OS!

This is correct (for "Maintenance", not "Unsupported"). When Logos 6 & Windows Vista were in "Maintenance" support, Logos 6 kept receiving updates (the latest was Logos 6.14 SR-5) until we changed it to "Unsupported" when Logos 7.7 shipped; compare the dates on https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_6_Release_Notes and https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_7_Release_Notes.

Dave Hooton:
By "Logos 8 will continue to receive updates", I think you mean (generally) that updated versions of a Supported/Maintenance App will still be shipped to a Maintenance OS; whereas you will not ship a Supported/Maintenance App to an Unsupported OS!?

I think what you're saying here is correct, but I don't understand the "!?" at the end. We will not ship updates to an Unsupported OS; this should not be surprising.

Posts 187
Puddin’ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 12:54 AM

I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance.  But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10.  I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).  

I‘ve literally spent thousands of dollars on Logos products in the last year or two—as well as referred many people in the church I pastor to the Logos app. (and many preacher friends).  I sure would hate to lose all of this somehow.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 1:41 AM

Puddin’:
I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance.  But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10.  I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).  

No, not at all.

So long as you keep you Mac upto date with MacOS updates, you'll be able to continue to use Logos in the future.

MacOS is currently on version 10.14 (with 10.15 coming soon). The announcement is only saying that by February 2020 you'll need to update to that version. That will be no problem unless your Mac is more than seven years old. You'll need:

If you have a Mac that's older than that, you'll probably still be able to use Logos, but new features won't be available.

Posts 44
Craig Ostrander | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 2:06 PM

I have a 2008 MacBook Pro and it will not run Logos at all. I can still use the web version until I get a newer computer but a Mac as old as mine can only run up to IOS ver 10.10.5 so the OS on mine cannot be updated anymore. My time is up so time for a new one.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 3:34 PM

Craig Ostrander:

I have a 2008 MacBook Pro and it will not run Logos at all. I can still use the web version until I get a newer computer but a Mac as old as mine can only run up to IOS ver 10.10.5 so the OS on mine cannot be updated anymore. My time is up so time for a new one.

The 2008 MacBook Pro can run OS X 10.11 El Capitan, which Logos 8 will run fine on (until 2020).

Here's the official Apple link to confirm, with a download link: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206886

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 6:28 PM

Mark Barnes:
OS X 10.11 El Capitan

A minor clarification: the correct terminology now is macOS. They dropped the term "OS X" in 2016. However, El Capitan predates the name change so perhaps you are right? Stick out tongue

Craig Ostrander:
IOS ver 10.10.5

The term "iOS" refers to the operating system for the iPhone and until recently iPad. 

Mark Barnes:
The 2008 MacBook Pro can run OS X 10.11 El Capitan

That is an interesting point. Is there a reason you haven't upgraded to this Craig? If you want to get just a little more life out of the computer, I would suggest wiping the computer and installing El Capitan. If you do so, make sure to backup anything of importance! 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 14 2019 10:25 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Logos 8.11 is the last "Supported" release for Windows 7. Logos 8.12 will be a "Supported" release for Windows 10 and, if technically possible, a "Maintenance" release for Windows 7. As documented, "Maintenance" releases do have support for older OSes and are released to allow the latest resources to be read.

Then let's start with the understanding that the Maintenance entry in the table under Support Status will read "Logos 8.12+ on Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1....". Then I can understand to read the Maintenance column in the next table.

Otherwise, the understanding is that Logos 8.0+ is Supported on the operating systems listed in the Supported entry, and not supported on the operating systems listed in the Unsupported entry.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
We're promising that Logos 8.11 will install on Windows 7; we're not promising anything after that. We feel this is friendlier than taking explicit steps to prevent Logos 8.12 from installing because the table "implies no support for 'Old OS'".

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
We will not ship updates to an Unsupported OS; this should not be surprising.

Unless Windows 7 is a mistake, you're implying that Logos 8.0+ is supported on (or compatible with) a currently Unsupported OS (Windows 7 and earlier). It makes sense that you meant Windows 7 SP1, and that you will ship 8.12+ as long as the OS is in  Maintenance

So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)? It implies no support, as with other blank entries. A dash "--" would be more meaningful, as it is strictly only compatible with Supported OS (some of which could be considered "Old"). If I understand from the first table that certain versions are compatible with a "Maintenance" OS, then I will understand the "Some" entry in the Maintenance column.

But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2019 1:42 AM

JT (alabama24):
A minor clarification: the correct terminology now is macOS. They dropped the term "OS X" in 2016. However, El Capitan predates the name change so perhaps you are right?

Apple still call El Capitan OS X! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206886

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2019 7:06 AM

Mark Barnes:
Apple still call El Capitan OS X!

Interesting! In fact, there is a hard line at El Capitan (emphasis mine): 

Apple Support:
OS X El Capitan remains available for Mac computers that can't upgrade to macOS Mojave, High Sierra, or Sierra

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 187
Puddin’ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 15 2019 9:38 PM

Mark Barnes:

Puddin’:
I’m probably the least tech-savvy person on here, so pardon my ignorance.  But, I have a Mac Air, iPad Pro & iPhone 10.  I see the reference above to Mac, but surely this doesn’t mean that all Mac (or iPad Pro) will not be able to use Logos by Feb. 2020 (?).  

No, not at all.

So long as you keep you Mac upto date with MacOS updates, you'll be able to continue to use Logos in the future.

MacOS is currently on version 10.14 (with 10.15 coming soon). The announcement is only saying that by February 2020 you'll need to update to that version. That will be no problem unless your Mac is more than seven years old. You'll need:

If you have a Mac that's older than that, you'll probably still be able to use Logos, but new features won't be available.

Got it!  Thanks much Mark.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 17 2019 12:15 AM

Bradley, could you respond to my previous post.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:
Then let's start with the understanding that the Maintenance entry in the table under Support Status will read "Logos 8.12+ on Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1....". Then I can understand to read the Maintenance column in the next table.

It seems reasonable to assume that the Maintenance entry will be filled in on 4 February 2020 when Windows 7 SP1 enters maintenance support.

Dave Hooton:
Unless Windows 7 is a mistake

It was... metonymy? Smile

Yes, I meant Windows 7 SP1.

Dave Hooton:
So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)?

I think you're reading too much into this table. It's meant to be a quick summary of the support levels, not a definitive answer to every question.

Dave Hooton:
But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?

This is not really a meaningful combination of row and column values. Perhaps it should say "N/A".

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 17 2019 3:58 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
So is the blank entry for "Old OS" meaningful (under Supported)?

I think you're reading too much into this table. It's meant to be a quick summary of the support levels, not a definitive answer to every question.

Possibly. But the term "Old OS Compatibility" has always seemed incongruous. "Old OS Support" wouldn't raise any questions!

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:
But that brings us to the "Some" entry in the Unsupported column. What is intended when you do not provide updates for Unsupported Apps?

This is not really a meaningful combination of row and column values. Perhaps it should say "N/A".

Just make it blank, along with "New OS Support", etc.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 20 2019 4:41 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Microsoft has announced that Windows 7 will be "end of life" on January 14, 2020.

What will become the minimum supported Windows 10 version ? => https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet (Windows 10 version 1709 has Microsoft support ending for Education on April 14, 2020)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
What will become the minimum supported Windows 10 version ?

It's currently Windows 10 Anniversary Update (aka 1607, 10.0.14393).

Due to end of support from Microsoft, this will probably be increased to Windows 10 1809 but that change hasn't been made officially yet.

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LogosEmployee

Important Update for 32-bit Windows 10

We are extending the list of operating systems in the original announcement to include 32-bit Windows 10.

Logos 4 through Logos 8 have supported both 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Windows. (Logos has been 64-bit only on Mac OS X since OS X 10.7 "Lion".)

The share of customers running a 32-bit operating system has fallen from around 20% (when Logos 4 launched) to well under 1%, and most of those are running Windows 7, which we are going to stop supporting (see the original announcement in this thread).

In order to concentrate our development efforts on serving the vast majority of our customers, and to eliminate the extra testing we have to perform on 32-bit versions of Logos 8, we will put 32-bit Windows 10 into maintenance support on February 4, 2020 and end support for 32-bit Windows 10 by the end of 2020.

How do I know if I'll be affected?

Almost all Windows 10 systems sold recently are 64-bit. To find out the details on your operating system, click this link to open Settings, or right-click the Start Menu (Windows icon) and choose "System". Under "Device specifications", look for "System type". It should say "64-bit operating system, x64-based processor".

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