30,000+ new product pages on logos.com

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This post has 69 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 861
LogosEmployee
Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Aug 9 2019 3:22 PM

Hi all,

In response to requests for better cross-storefront searching, we added 30,000+ FL ebooks product pages to logos.com today. While they aren’t purchasable on Logos, they will come up in search results and they have a link to the sellable product page on ebooks.faithlife.com in a callout below the description.

We plan to do the same for Logos books on ebooks.faithlife.com soon.

We realize that it has the potential to clutter search results unnecessarily for users who don’t wish to see them. To address that, we will be adding a new “sellable/non-sellable” search filter to the site soon.

Please let me know if you have questions or suggestions for improvement.

Manager, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 10118
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 3:40 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
"sellable/non-sellable” search filter to the site soon.

That's confusing. 

All FL Sites / This Site Only ?


Posts 4914
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 3:54 PM

Why add the books when you are not ready to add the filter? I’d rather have waited for one release of a new website rather than this dripping tap approach.

 

Posts 861
LogosEmployee

Denise:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
"sellable/non-sellable” search filter to the site soon.

That's confusing. 

All FL Sites / This Site Only ?

There will be an option to filter out results that are displayable but not sellable on logos.com.

Similar to the "ownership" filter:

Manager, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 2062
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 4:08 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
We plan to do the same for Logos books on ebooks.faithlife.com soon.

I think it's an awesome and appreciated addition to logos.com. However, is it really desirable to put Logos editions it on the ebooks site? It might lead to more sales or more confusion? Might be more interesting to just have a link at the top the search results to run the same search on Logos.com rather than clutter that store? Just seems there would be more crossover coming from Logos to ebooks rather than vice versa. Just a thought...

Posts 3191
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 4:47 PM

Randy W. Sims:
I think it's an awesome and appreciated addition to logos.com.

Agreed!

Randy W. Sims:
However, is it really desirable to put Logos editions it on the ebooks site?

My two reasons why it wouldn't generally be desirable:

  1. Logos tagging/pricing vs. ebook tagging/pricing. Ebook customers who do not use Logos would be paying a premium for a resource that they couldn't fully benefit from.
  2. The facets sidebar is very different between the two sites. The Logos resources would be far less discoverable at the ebooks site.

Randy W. Sims:
Just seems there would be more crossover coming from Logos to ebooks rather than vice versa.

Yes.

While there's clearly a benefit in finding ebook editions on the Logos store, I don't see an advantage in finding Logos editions on the ebooks store.

Posts 26277
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 5:05 PM

Sorry Randy and Petah, but I guess I always assumed a much greater overlap in users between the two sites. While I considered some resources (think Amish novels) to be more likely read on a reader like Kindle, I assumed most purchasers had access to Logos. No - I have no statistics, just assumptions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1010
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 5:58 PM

Granted that there are quibbles that could be made and kinks to be worked out, I think this is at core a great idea.  There should be one place where a customer can look for all the books that FaithLife offers on a particular topic.

Posts 1631
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 6:16 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
In response to requests for better cross-storefront searching, we added 30,000+ FL ebooks product pages to logos.com today.

Thank you so much. That will make it so much quicker to find books by an author who could span both sites.

Appreciated.

Posts 6321
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 6:18 PM

Sounds too crowded already 😣

Posts 9079
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 6:51 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
While they aren’t purchasable on Logos

Ben, can you explain why FL is averse to selling ebooks on the Logos site? It just seems a bit crazy to have to jump back and forth between two sites to add something and then have separate carts and separate checkouts.

I guess when I learned you were going to let me discover all your products on logos.com I assumed I could then buy them there and this confuses me.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2062
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 7:00 PM

On the search results I’d love to see a button to jump directly to ebooks product page. The logic is there to hide the buy buttons; it’d be nice to see alternate button(s) to Visit on ebooks and maybe Buy on ebooks (add to cart and open the cart).

Not sure about Wishlist button. It sort of uselessly adds it to logos.com wishlist where it’s described as not for sale.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 7:23 PM

Mark Smith:
can you explain why FL is averse to selling ebooks on the Logos site? It just seems a bit crazy to have to jump back and forth between two sites to add something and then have separate carts and separate checkouts.

Our agreements with publishers make selling the books in the "correct" store the best thing for now, so this was the most viable solution for solving the problem in the short term. In the future, we'd like to sell them all in the same store.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 7:33 PM

Randy W. Sims:

On the search results I’d love to see a button to jump directly to ebooks product page. The logic is there to hide the buy buttons; it’d be nice to see alternate button(s) to Visit on ebooks and maybe Buy on ebooks (add to cart and open the cart).

Not sure about Wishlist button. It sort of uselessly adds it to logos.com wishlist where it’s described as not for sale.

We're planning to enable the pricing box in search and on the product page. The "Add to cart" button will add it to the cart at Faithlife Ebooks. We'll indicate as much with some text under the button. Something like this:

Posts 10118
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 7:35 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

There will be an option to filter out results that are displayable but not sellable on logos.com.

Yes, that's what you said initially. I was referring to your sellable/not-sellable labels. The former is obvious, the latter implies FL doesn't sell the eBook ones, period (to normal people). Unless you follow the forum.


Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 10:54 PM

Denise:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

There will be an option to filter out results that are displayable but not sellable on logos.com.

Yes, that's what you said initially. I was referring to your sellable/not-sellable labels. The former is obvious, the latter implies FL doesn't sell the eBook ones, period (to normal people). Unless you follow the forum.

We're discussing a few ways to handle the sellability facet(s). There are a variety of things that could be useful to know. We have to balance sufficient flexibility with not over-complicating things and what's easy to deliver.

Here are some quick and rough ideas:

Posts 3191
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2019 11:33 PM

Thanks for giving us a glimpse of what you are considering!

1. The Non-sellable item is confusing. I understand that there are some items on the store that are not individually for sale, but the wording doesn't convey that "sellable anywhere" pertains to resources from other sites. (My impression of "anywhere" would mean worldwide distribution, not storefront-related rights.)

2. The Sellable At facet is the most practical for filtering which site's resources appear in the results. (However, aren't the Lexham Press and Verbum titles already sellable though the Logos.com storefront? What would be the point of including/excluding those titles in particular, as compared to the non-sellable Faithlife ebooks that were just added?)

3. The Sellable As facet is problematic. If we're talking about books, I thought they all would also be available individually. If we're talking about unsellable ($0 but no Add to cart button) items in a collection, perhaps that issue should be resolved differently, not by a facet. Maybe those unsellable items shouldn't have a price ($0 is not the same as "not for sale individually"), or even show up in search results, eliminating the need for the Sellable As facet.

4. Sellable In is also very practical, although it's not clear what the distinction would be between Global and Any -- perhaps replace them both with Worldwide?

Thanks for giving us a chance to provide feedback as you decide how to proceed.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 10 2019 12:02 AM

Thanks for your feedback.

  1. Non-sellable would mean can't be sold on any store, in any country, or in any configuration. This would apply to a product that the publisher has asked us to stop selling for one reason or another, but that we've retained in the store for SEO reasons and to help guide users to the best alternative product.
  2. I'm not sure we'd include Lexham and Verbum, but if for some reason your preference was to shop at Logos.com, but you wanted to narrow to the catalog from one of those other stores, you could. The main value here would be Faithlife Ebooks, of course. But having other storefronts as filters could be useful in some cases.
  3. It seems to me an important distinction whether you can purchase a product directly, indirectly, or not at all. For example, a given dataset can be purchased, but only in a containing collection. Another dataset might be purchasable standalone. In some cases, you might want to see only the latter, but in some cases the former.
  4. I updated Global to Worldwide after I posted the screenshot. Worldwide would be for products with no geographical restrictions. Any would be for products with or without geographical restrictions.

Here's my latest iteration:

It still needs some work, and some of this might not be easy to implement. So don't take this as anything other than some quick brainstorming of ways we could perhaps solve this problem.

Posts 13345
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 10 2019 2:07 AM

<tldr>Instead of making the store more complex to suit all Faithlife's policies, simplify the policies and keep the store simple.</tldr>

I'm delighted that we won't have to search multiple stores to find the resources we need. But I'm concerned that Faithlife are making this more complex than it needs to be.

Here's what I think customers want:

  1. To be able to find resources they need without searching multiple stores.
  2. To know clearly before purchase the quality of the resource they're buying (eBook vs Logos).
  3. To (optionally) not be spammed with products we can't purchase.

With that in mind, we only need two filters:

  • eBook/Logos edition
  • Available/Available only in a Collection/Not available to me

("Not available to me" covers products not available to anyone and not available in my territory.)

In response to the proposed filters:

Sellability: I don't care whether a product is generally sellable or not. I only care whether I can buy it. If it's sellable but only in North America, as far as I'm concerned it's not sellable.

Sellable at: I don't care what store I eventually buy it from if I can see all the search results in one place. (It's relevant occasionally only because of Faithlife's policies regarding credit and discount codes. Perhaps these policies could change to help simplify things.)

Sellable as: This is potentially useful. It would be even more useful if none of your products were only available in a collection. (Another example of Faithlife policies making things more complex for customers.)

Sellable in: I don't care whether a product is sellable in Australia or not. I only care whether it's sellable to me.

Sellable via: I'm not sure about this one, as I only buy products. But as there's almost nothing available for rental at the moment, I don't see how it helps much right now. Perhaps one for later?

Posts 396
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 10 2019 5:28 AM

GIANT STEP BACKWARDS!!

Now i have to wade through pages and pages of ebooks when i want to see what is "On Sale Today" at logos.com.   

PLEASE add filtering by store as quickly as possible. 

While your at it, can you please add filtering by Progress when you select Store>Pre-Publication Products?   This option was removed for some reason that doesn't make any sense to me.

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