Papyri 98 and 115

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K. M. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Sep 29 2019 3:56 AM

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right section to ask this question. However, I'd really like to know if any of you knows whether Papyrus 98 or Papyrus 115 contain the words "o prwtos kai o esxchatos" ("the First and the Last", Revelation 1,17 and 2,8).

According to Wikipedia, Papyrus 98 contains the verses 1,13 - 2,1. The words are in brackets though: "[ειμι ο πρωτος και ο εσχατος [1:18] και εγενομεν̣ ν̣εκ̣ρ̣ο̣[ς και ιδου...". So is it not in the original Papyrus?

Again according to Wikipedia, Papyrus 115 contains the chapters/verses 2,1-3 (remember, verse 2.8 is what I am interested in). Does it mean that it stretches from verse 1 of the second chapter to chapter 3? Or does it end at verse 3 of the second chapter?

On what basis is "o prwtos kai o esxatos" the preferred reading in the Nestle-Aland 28th edition of the Novum Testamentum Graece? Our best complete MS of Revelation is Codex A, which actually reads "prwtotokos" in both Revelation 1,17 and 2,8 (correct me if I'm wrong, haven't looked up variants in the Codex Alexandrinus for a long time).

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 30 2019 2:17 PM

K. M.:
However, I'd really like to know if any of you knows whether Papyrus 98 or Papyrus 115 contain the words "o prwtos kai o esxchatos" ("the First and the Last", Revelation 1,17 and 2,8).

Welcome Big Smile

Logos.com has => The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts that includes digitized Papyrus 98 & 115 so can search using Milestone for verses

{Milestone <Rv1.17>} OR {Milestone <Rv2.8>} 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5
K. M. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 9:41 AM

Thank you very much. I am completely new here so I have no idea how I can find the stuff I need here.

Thanks for your answer.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 10:08 AM

K. M.:
The words are in brackets though: "[ειμι ο πρωτος και ο εσχατος [1:18] και εγενομεν̣ ν̣εκ̣ρ̣ο̣[ς και ιδου...". So is it not in the original Papyrus?

Yes, [brackets] usually indicate text that is being supplied by the editor of the papyrus. The editor should have done the work to ensure that the suggested words are an appropriate fit for the space.

If a [bracket starts and has no end

then it is assumed the end of the line has an implicit end bracket. That is, the start of the next line need not specify an ending bracket.

In KS4J's example, the brackets imply that over half the column is supplied/reconstructed. That's not necessarily a problem, there is enough extant text to know what portion of Revelation the text represents. But the supplied portion should not be used as evidence of particular readings or variations. Also, letters with a dot underneath indicate questionable readings, that is, the editor is not 100% sure but is mostly sure of the letter.

K. M.:
Papyrus 115 contains the chapters/verses 2,1-3 (remember, verse 2.8 is what I am interested in). Does it mean that it stretches from verse 1 of the second chapter to chapter 3? Or does it end at verse 3 of the second chapter?

"2,1-3" is a European (German) Bible reference notation that indicates 2:1-3. So P115 is a pretty small fragment, apparently, with only portions of 3 verses extant.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 1 2019 10:08 AM

For more on the standard conventions used in transcriptions of papyri, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiden_Conventions 

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 5
K. M. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 3 2019 2:00 PM

Interesting. I'm not sure if I've fully understood you though. So let us stick with the example given in P98 (I added numbers for convenience):

1: περ]ι̣εζωσμμ̣εν̣[ον προς τοις μαστοις ζωνην
2: χρυ]σεν [1:14] και η κ̣ε[φαλη αυτου και αι τριχες λευκαι
3: ως] εριον λευκον [ως χιων και οι οφθαλμοι αυτου ως
4: φλ]οξ πυρος [1:15] και [οι ποδες αυτου ομοιοι χαλκολιβανω
5: ως] εν καμινω πε[πυρωμενης και η φωνη αυτου ως
6: φωνη υδατων π̣ολλων [1:16] και εχων εν τη δεξια χειρι
7: αυτου αστερες [ζ̅ και εκ του στοματος αυτου ρομ

Why do the first 5 lines have ] bracket but the beginning of lines 6 and 7 have none? Does it mean that this big chunk: "φωνη υδατων π̣ολλων [1:16] και εχων εν τη δεξια χειρι αυτου αστερες" in the manuscript itself? So all of line 6 (and some of 7) is in the Papyrus 98, if I understood you correctly.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 4 2019 9:51 AM

K. M.:
Does it mean that this big chunk: "φωνη υδατων π̣ολλων [1:16] και εχων εν τη δεξια χειρι αυτου αστερες" in the manuscript itself? So all of line 6 (and some of 7) is in the Papyrus 98, if I understood you correctly.

Yes, that's what the transcription implies (and what the manuscript looks like, it is missing the top left chunk and the right half of the entire column). In whatever your source is, it looks like line 6 is missing a "[", though. Should be: 6: φωνη υδατων π[ολλων ...

Also, the transcription available from the NTVMR (below, which is pretty much "official") differs from your line 7 in the reconstruction. The "Textual Variants" guide section in Logos interfaces directly with the NTVMR and should be able to help you find the image and transcription (Guide section image below the NTVMR transcription image; note some images on NTVMR may require an account with "scholar" access, which just means you need to ask them for an account with those privileges as they basically give it to whomever asks).

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 5
K. M. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2019 10:16 AM

Ah alright, got it. Thanks.

And my source was Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_98).

Cheers

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