Page 1 of 1 (19 items)
This post has 18 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 1368
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, May 1 2020 12:44 AM

The new FBOTM is An Introduction to the Bible by Patrick J. Hartin and Robert A. Kugler.

I am also very grateful for the discount on Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia (sale price: $9.99).

Thanks FL/Verbum!

Posts 2200
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 8:34 AM

Thanks!

Posts 3841
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 9:39 AM

I'm finding it fascinating that, after many months of Logos being RIGHT ON TOP of posting FBOTM and Verbum showing up hours/days later, it's actually the reverse in recent times: Verbum is posting ASAP whilst we are still awaiting Logos...

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1053
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 9:44 AM

Logos is posting at 10:00am Bellingham time these days.

Posts 2539
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 9:58 AM

The Verbum free book and the +1, +2 and +3 are excellent this month. The commentary on 1 Corinthians is really good.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 3763
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 10:08 AM

Thanks for the heads up, HJ and thank you to FL for the freebie and deals. 

Posts 3841
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 1 2020 6:14 PM

Tom Reynolds:

Logos is posting at 10:00am Bellingham time these days.

Is Verbum on Vatican City time, then?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3476
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 2 2020 4:15 PM

Jan Krohn:
The commentary on 1 Corinthians is really good.

Yes

Posts 52
LW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 1:06 PM

I am also very grateful for this month's selection. About the book on 1 Cor., can anyone tell me how it compares to the corresponding volume in this wonderful set? https://verbum.com/product/31152/ancient-christian-commentary-on-scripture-complete-set-updated-edition-accs

Thanks in advance for any replies. 

Posts 249
Roy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 1:30 PM

From the ACCS:==============

13:1–3 THE LAW OF LOVE


OVERVIEW: The tongues of men are human languages (SEVERIAN OF GABALA). Without love they are like a noisy gong (AMBROSIASTER). The tongues of angels are perceived by the mind, not the ear (THEODORET OF CYR). One may have prophetic powers yet be filled with an evil spirit, as in the case of Saul. Even Balaam’s ass prophesied in a human language to demonstrate the majesty of God (AMBROSIASTER). By faith Paul does not mean common and universal faith but the spiritual gift of faith (GENNADIUS OF CONSTANTINOPLE). Love, which fulfills the law (SEVERIAN), is the head of religion (AMBROSIASTER). Love does not hate anyone (CAESARIUS OF ARLES). Paul discounts even the most extreme sacrifices if they are made without love (CHRYSOSTOM). Offering one’s body to be burned is not permission to commit suicide but a command not to resist suffering if the alternative is being forced to do wrong (AUGUSTINE).


13:1 Speaking Without Love

A NOISY GONG. AMBROSIASTER: It is a great gift to be able to speak in different languages. To speak with the tongues of angels is even greater. But in order to show that none of this can be ascribed to merit and that every tongue is subject to the glory of God, Paul adds that a man without love is like a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
Balaam’s ass spoke a human language in order to demonstrate the majesty of God, and children sang the praises of Christ in order to confound the Jews.2 In fact the Savior went further and declared that even stones could cry out if necessary. COMMENTARY ON PAUL’S EPISTLES.4

A NUISANCE WITHOUT LOVE. CHRYSOSTOM: In other words, says Paul, if I have no love I am not just useless but a positive nuisance. Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians 32.6.

TONGUES OF MEN ARE LANGUAGES. SEVERIAN OF GABALA: The tongues of angels refer to the different languages spoken on earth since the destruction of the tower of Babel. As Moses says in Deuteronomy [32:8]: “God has set the boundaries of the nations according to the number of angels.” It is therefore the task of each angel to defend the distinction of nations. The tongues of men on the other hand are languages which we learn; they do not come to us naturally. PAULINE COMMENTARY FROM THE GREEK CHURCH.

TONGUES OF ANGELS NOT PERCEIVED BY THE EAR. THEODORET OF CYR: Paul chooses speaking in tongues as his example because the Corinthians thought that it was the greatest of the gifts. This was because it had been given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost, before any of the others. The tongues of angels are those which are perceived by the mind, not by the ear. COMMENTARY ON THE FIRST EPISTLE TO THE CORINTHIANS 251.


13:2 Nothing Without Love

THE LIMITS OF PROPHETIC POWERS. AMBROSIASTER: Balaam prophesied even though he was not a prophet, and Caiaphas also prophesied.9 So did Saul when, because of his disobedience, he was filled with an evil spirit. Judas accompanied the other disciples and understood all the mysteries and knowledge given to them, but as an enemy of love he betrayed the Savior.11 Both Tertullian and Novatian were men of no small learning, but because of their pride they lost the fellowship of love and falling into schism devised heresies, to their own damnation. COMMENTARY ON PAUL’S EPISTLES.

MIRACLES OF WORD AND DEED. CHRYSOSTOM: By naming prophecy and faith, Paul included every spiritual gift, since miracles are either in word or in deed. Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians 32.7.

THE SPIRITUAL GIFT OF FAITH. GENNADIUS OF CONSTANTINOPLE: By faith, Paul does not mean the common and universal faith of believers but the spiritual gift of faith. The two things have the same name, because when the Holy Spirit comes upon us it is our human faith which expands to make room for the divine gift. PAULINE COMMENTARY FROM THE GREEK CHURCH.


13:3a Giving Away All

EXTREME SACRIFICES. CHRYSOSTOM: Paul discounts even the most extreme sacrifices, if they are made without love. Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians 32.8.

GIVING ONE’S BODY TO BE BURNED. AUGUSTINE: Giving one’s body to be burned is not a license to commit suicide but a command not to resist suffering if the alternative is being forced to do wrong. Letter 173, To Donatus.


13:3b Gaining Nothing Without Love

THE HEAD OF RELIGION. AMBROSIASTER: Love is the very head of religion, and someone who has no head is dead. COMMENTARY ON PAUL’S EPISTLES.

LOVE DOES NOT HATE ANYONE. CAESARIUS OF ARLES: Since true charity loves all, if someone knows that he hates even one other person he should hasten to vomit up this bitter gall, in order to be ready to receive the sweetness of charity himself. SERMON 23.4.

LOVE FULFILLS THE LAW. SEVERIAN OF GABALA: The one who loves fulfills the law. The one who fulfills the law is well respected. The one who is well respected receives a spiritual gift. PAULINE COMMENTARY FROM THE GREEK CHURCH.


Bray, G. L. (Ed.). (1999). 1–2 Corinthians (pp. 130–131). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

From TCB:==========

1 Corinthians 13:1–3

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.


(1) John Chrysostom

To make his argument more palatable, Paul does not confine himself to the gift of speaking in tongues but proceeds to other spiritual gifts. First he denigrates everything that is not accompanied by love and then sketches out what love is like. Since he had decided to demonstrate his point by amplification, he begins with the lesser things and moves on to the greater. For the gift of tongues, which he put last when he was ranking gifts (12:7–11), he now puts first, since he wants to advance by degrees from lesser to greater things. After he mentions speaking in tongues, he moves on at once to prophecy, saying, if I have prophetic powers. Here too he uses exaggeration. In the earlier sentence, after saying not just “tongues,” but the tongues of all men and then adding those of angels, he then showed that this gift is nothing without love. In the same way, he now mentions not only prophecy but the most exalted form of prophecy. For after saying, if I have prophetic powers, he adds, and I understand all mysteries and all knowledge. This gift too he describes in heightened form.
After this, Paul goes on to the rest of the spiritual gifts. But to avoid being tiresome by reciting them all again one by one, he names the mother and source of them all, and this again in an exaggerated way, saying, and if I have all faith. And not satisfied with this, he adds something said by Christ to be a very great thing (see Matt 21:21): [faith] so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. See how here again he takes away the prestige associated with speaking in tongues. For in the case of prophecy he points to a great benefit, namely, understanding mysteries and possessing all knowledge, and in the case of faith he names removing mountains, no small accomplishment. About tongues, however, he says only that it is a gift and then moves on. Notice this as well, how in these few words he includes all the gifts when he mentions prophecy and faith. For miracles come about either through words or deeds. And so Christ says that the smallest portion of faith has the ability to remove mountains (Matt 21:21; Mark 11:23).…
If I divide up and give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. What hyperbole! Here again Paul mentions the gifts and then adds a further description of them. He does not say, “If I give half of all my substance to the poor, or two-thirds or three-fourths,” but If I divide up and give away all I have. Nor does he say, “if I give,” but if I divide up and give away, with the result that to the expenditure is added the task of careful administration. If I deliver my body to be burned. He does not say, “If I am killed,” but he speaks again in the strongest terms. He singles out the hardest death of all, being burned alive, and says that this is no great thing without love. Then he adds, I gain nothing. But the full extent of Paul’s hyperbole becomes clear only when we compare Christ’s testimonies about almsgiving and death. What, then, are these? Christ says to the rich man, If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor; and come, follow me (Matt 19:21). Discussing love for one’s neighbor, he says, Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13). Thus it is clear that this is greatest in God’s sight. “But I tell you” (says Paul), “if we give our life for God, and not only give it but in such a way that we are burned up (i.e., if I deliver my body to be burned), we will have little profit if we do not love our neighbor.” To say that spiritual gifts bring no great gain when love is absent is not surprising since these gifts are less important than how we conduct our lives.…
But the question we are considering is this: if Christ associates these two things [i.e., selling possessions and giving up one’s life] with perfection, why does Paul call them imperfect without love? He is not contradicting Christ (God forbid!) but is in perfect harmony with him. For Christ did not merely say to the rich man, sell what you possess and give to the poor; he added, and come, follow me (Matt 19:21). No form of following him is more characteristic of disciples of Christ than loving one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, he says, if you have love for one another (John 13:35).…
This is what one who has love is like. But anyone who performs miracles or has complete knowledge but has not love, even if he raises thousands from the dead, will do little good since he is separated from others and unwilling to associate with his fellow servants. That is why Christ says that the mark of perfect love is to love our neighbors. To Peter he says, if you love me more than these, tend my sheep (John 21:15–16). Do you see how even here he implies that this love is greater than martyrdom? Suppose a father had a beloved son for whom he would even give his life. Suppose too that someone loved the father but paid no attention whatever to the son. This would anger the father, and he would take no notice of the man’s love for him because he neglected his son. If this is true for a human father and a son, it is much more so for God and human beings. For God loves us more than any father.
Thus, after saying, This is the first and greatest commandment: You shall love the Lord your God, Christ adds, making this explicit, And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Matt 22:37–39; Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18). See how he requires love of the neighbor in nearly the same hyperbolic terms. In the case of God, he says, with all your heart, and in the case of your neighbor, as yourself, which is the same as with all your heart. If this commandment had been kept perfectly, we would have known no slave or free, no ruler or ruled, no rich or poor, no small or great, no devil. I don’t mean merely the devil—even if there were another like him, or even ten thousand, where love is present they will have no power. For hay withstands fire better than the devil survives the flame of love. Love is stronger than a city wall; it is harder than steel. And even if you should think of some material stronger than these, love’s strength exceeds them all. Neither wealth nor poverty overcomes it. No, there would be neither poverty nor immoderate wealth if there were love, but only the advantages associated with each: from the former we would enjoy freedom from being envied, and from the latter freedom from worry. We would suffer neither wealth’s worries nor poverty’s fear. But why am I talking about the advantages that derive from love? Think how extraordinarily great love is all by itself, how great is the joy it brings, how great the joy in which it sets the soul, a joy that it is the fairest flower!


(2) Augustine

It is good to speak about love to those who are guided by it, that love which, whatever is the object of your love, makes that love good. According to the apostle, it is in love that we find a still more excellent way (12:31). The passage was read just now, you have heard it: And I will show you, he says, a still more excellent way (12:31). Then he tells of many gifts, extraordinary gifts that are not to be made light of. But he says that these bring no benefit to those who have not love. Among these gifts he mentions speaking in the tongues of men and angels, having prophetic powers, all knowledge, all faith, so as to remove mountains, giving away all one has to the poor, delivering one’s body to be burned. All these things are magnificent and from God, but only if they are set upon the foundation of love and rise from the root of love.
We would not dare to claim that people could actually possess these gifts without having love unless we were taught by examples from Holy Scripture itself.… Among the excellent gifts Paul names, the really important one seems to be either prophecy or faith. What about the others? If someone who has prophecy gains nothing without love, and if someone who has faith cannot come to the kingdom of God without love, do we need to speak about the other gifts? What is speaking in tongues in comparison with prophecy and faith?… These two are preeminent, and it is quite surprising to find that someone can have prophecy or faith without love.
The book of Kings gives us an example that concerns prophecy. Saul persecuted the holy David. When he had sent servants to haul him off for punishment, they found David among the prophets who were with Samuel, the son of the barren woman Hannah.… While they were prophesying, the men sent by Saul arrived, as I said, to haul David away to be killed. And upon them—the men who had come to take a holy and just man to be killed and to pluck him from the midst of the prophets—the Spirit of God descended, and they began to prophesy (1 Sam 19:18–20). Immediately they were filled with the Spirit of God and became prophets. It could be that this happened because of their innocence; perhaps they had not come of their own accord to arrest David but were only following the king’s orders. Perhaps they came to where David was having no intention of carrying out Saul’s order but intending to remain there themselves. Similar things happen today: sometimes a bailiff is sent by an authority to drag someone out of a church. He does not dare to act against God, and to avoid being executed himself he stays with his intended victim instead of dragging him off. So let us say that Saul’s servants suddenly became prophets because they were innocent.… Let us believe this of them. Others were sent, and upon them the Spirit of God also descended, and they too began to prophesy. Let’s count them with the first group as innocent. A third group was sent. The same happened to them. Presumably they too were innocent. Because of the delay in carrying out Saul’s orders, Saul himself came. Was he too innocent? Was he sent under duress rather than in willful wickedness? On him too the Spirit of God descended, and he began to prophesy. Note, Saul is prophesying, but he has no love. He has become a vessel touched by the Spirit but not purified by him.…
And so the Spirit of God did not purify Saul the persecutor but touched him so that he prophesied. Another example: Caiaphas, the chief priest, persecuted Christ. And yet he spoke prophetically when he said, It is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish (John 11:50). The Evangelist thereupon reveals that this was a prophecy and says, He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied (John 11:51).…
So we have proved that someone can have prophecy without love. But then prophecy has no benefit for him, according to the apostle: if I have not love, he says, I am nothing. He does not say, “prophecy is nothing” or “faith is nothing,” but I am nothing if I do not have love. Although he has great things, he is nothing. For even the possession of the great things he has serves not to help him but to bring him into judgment. It is not a great thing merely to have great things: one must also use them well. But no one without love can use them well. Unless our will is good, we cannot use anything well. And when love is absent, the will cannot be good.
What about faith? Does anyone have faith but lack love? Indeed, many believe and do not love, too many to mention. We know that demons believe what we believe but do not love what we love. The apostle James upbraided those who thought it enough to believe but did not wish to live good lives, which one can do only by means of love—for a good life belongs to love, and one who loves cannot live badly since living well is nothing other than being filled with love. Since some boasted that they believed in God and yet did not live good lives in accordance with the faith they had received, James compared them to demons, saying: You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder (Jas 2:19). So if you merely believe and do not love, your life is no different from that of demons.


Wilken, R. L., & Kovacs, J. L. (Eds.). (2005). 1 Corinthians: Interpreted by Early Christian Commentators. (J. L. Kovacs, Trans.) (pp. 215–218). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, UK: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

END:=======

A very quick, somewhat random comparison for you to view.

Posts 52
LW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 2:40 PM

Thanks very much, Roy. It would seem from your comparison that the ACCS gives many more ancient contents, but much briefer, as well as limited citations; while TCB gives much longer selections but not even limited citations. Please correct me if this is not the case? 

Posts 28728
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 2:51 PM

TCB actually gives fuller citations - just in the back rather than interspered. ACCS with its shorter excerpts is better able to avoid problem texts that might challenge their POV. TCB is better at letting the text be what it is.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3841
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 7:40 PM

MJ. Smith:
TCB is better at letting the text be what it is.

I like this.

MJ. Smith:
better able to avoid problem texts that might challenger their POV

what POV would they have? I never thought of them having one. just a collection of quotes, I thought. often diverse.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 28728
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2020 9:06 PM

from a review of the series:

The Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture is a good series, and I can recommend it, though there are a few things one ought to know about it:

  1. It is based on the 39 volume Protestant set of early Church writings that is commonly available (including on the web for free). The advantage of the commentary set is that it has the material sorted by Scripture order, so it gathers together passages where the Church Fathers and other early writers are talking about a particular passage. This pre-sorted aspect of the set makes it much easier to find relevant passages on the book or passage you are studying, and it is the chief reason one would want to buy the series.
  2. The set has an older translation that is somewhat clunky in places, and it occasionally suffers from Protestant translator bias. These, however, are minor problems.
  3. More significant is the fact that the set is limited by the 39-volume translation it is based on. This set did not include translations of some writings that would help round-out the picture of the early Church Fathers’ views (e.g., Jerome’s Commentary on Galatians was not translated, though it is key to getting a balanced picture of early Christian interpretation of Romans and Galatians). On occasion, the editors of the 39-volume set appear to have deliberately excluded certain works because they were too Catholic. Still, this is a sin of omission in the work, and the set is still useful.
  4. The upshot is that the set is a good one and I can recommend it, but it requires that you use some critical thinking skills when you read and that you keep in mind that there can be (and sometimes are) important things that you are not seeing because of the limitations of the original translation.

So we should now add Bell, James Stuart, ed. Ancient Faith Study Bible. Nashville, TN: Holman Bibles, 2019. to the discussion - I'm not that far into it but am so far positively impressed ... they appear to try to  rectify the problems of  the Schaff translation.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 52
LW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 10 2020 1:11 AM

Thanks very much for the correction and extra info. And I'm all for bringing the Ancient Faith Study Bible into the discussion. I would be glad to know more. :)

Posts 1634
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 10 2020 1:31 AM

MJ. Smith:
It is based on the 39 volume Protestant set of early Church writings that is commonly available

Really? I was under the impression that it included fresh material as well. Granted, the only time I have used the set was when I saw it in an Abbey library while visiting. But I was concerned about editorial bias and have instead read various fathers on their own to hear their individual voices instead of a potentially synthesized voice of the fathers.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Basic, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 28728
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 10 2020 2:50 AM

Ken McGuire:

MJ. Smith:
It is based on the 39 volume Protestant set of early Church writings that is commonly available

Really? I was under the impression that it included fresh material as well.

I was quoting a source I expected to be reliable. I've gone and double checked and determined two things to be true:

  • the selection of material was based on a database that was originally loaded with the Schaff materials among others - there is no way of even guessing its content when the selections for each volume were made
  • the translations definitely do include some new material ...  what percentage comes from what source would be an interesting but not particularly useful research project.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1634
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 10 2020 5:11 AM

MJ. Smith:
I've gone and double checked

Thanks for double checking so fast. What you say certainly sounds reasonable - and like some of the other things I have heard about it.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Basic, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 3476
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 10 2020 10:57 AM

MJ. Smith:
The set has an older translation that is somewhat clunky in places, and it occasionally suffers from Protestant translator bias. These, however, are minor problems.

A number of the original translations were touched up (modernized) for the ACSS.

Page 1 of 1 (19 items) | RSS