4.0dRC1 Doesn't detect 4.0d "Gold"

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Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010 12:34 PM

I've been running 4.0dRC1 on the beta update channel, and "Update Now" reports that there are no updates available, nor is anything detected when launching 4.0dRC1.

Is anyone else having this issue?

Thanks
Richard 

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 12:38 PM

Ditto

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 12:44 PM

Richard Lyall:

I've been running 4.0dRC1 on the beta update channel, and "Update Now" reports that there are no updates available, nor is anything detected when launching 4.0dRC1.

Is anyone else having this issue?

Thanks
Richard 

I think we confirmed in another thread that the only channel to get the "gold" release is the default channel. Note that the "gold" release is unchanged from the RC1 release, except that the "RC1" is no longer in the release name, and the version number is updated to 4.0d (4.04.4.1385)

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 12:55 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

I think we confirmed in another thread that the only channel to get the "gold" release is the default channel. Note that the "gold" release is unchanged from the RC1 release, except that the "RC1" is no longer in the release name, and the version number is updated to 4.0d (4.04.4.1385)

Though I think you're right that we confirmed this, I think it's also been mentioned a few times (since it happened on 4.0c as well) that this behavior should be changed. People using the beta should get the gold releases too, automatically, as a reward for all their hard testing work, and yet remain on the beta channel. We shouldn't have to channel surf. EDIT: I seem to recall that after this complaint was raised on 4.0c, they did go ahead and push the gold version out on the beta channel, but I guess it's still a manual process so they might have forgotten this time. This needs to be made a part of a standard process that is followed every time.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 1:03 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
I think we confirmed in another thread that the only channel to get the "gold" release is the default channel. Note that the "gold" release is unchanged from the RC1 release, except that the "RC1" is no longer in the release name, and the version number is updated to 4.0d (4.04.4.1385)

I think that Melissa pushed the 'Gold' version of 4.0c to the Beta channel last time. If I'm not mistaken...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 3:21 PM

Thanks - "set update channel to I gotta have the latest version so help me God" sorted it out.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 4:07 PM

Rosie Perera:
People using the beta should get the gold releases too, automatically, as a reward for all their hard testing work,

I don't consider that as a reward as I have a dedicated beta test system where I don't want nor expect to get Gold releases beyond the potential candidates.

 

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 30 2010 6:45 PM

Dave Hooton:

Rosie Perera:
People using the beta should get the gold releases too, automatically, as a reward for all their hard testing work,

I don't consider that as a reward as I have a dedicated beta test system where I don't want nor expect to get Gold releases beyond the potential candidates.

I have a dedicated beta test system, too. I'm not understanding what difference it would make to get the gold release if it was the same as the release candidate, assuming your channel would stay on beta after that update?

RC2 was declared the gold release, but it wasn't released on the beta channel. Thus I still have RC1 because I haven't changed my update channel to default (on principle; because I don't want to have to keep switching channels back and forth). In this particular instance, for 4.0d, it doesn't really matter, since the only fix between RC1 and RC2 was to remove the "RC" text from the About Box. But in general there are usually other bug fixes. As beta testers, we should always get the latest available version (except Service Releases if I've already got the beta for the next version, since presumably those SR bugfixes will be folded in to the code fork of the next version).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 7:31 AM

Rosie Perera:
RC2 was declared the gold release, but it wasn't released on the beta channel.

In theory if you had the update channel set to beta throughout beta testing you would get RC2 (or if you just set it that way). I haven't the opportunity to test this as I'm on vacation.

Rosie Perera:
As beta testers, we should always get the latest available version (except Service Releases if I've already got the beta for the next version, since presumably those SR bugfixes will be folded in to the code fork of the next version).

I misunderstood your post as including the SR's, because I don't believe Logos should go out of their way to put Stable releases on the Beta channel (the RC that goes Gold should be the only one because it was put up as a beta). And, yes, RC2 is OK because it is an RC!

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 2:24 PM

Dave Hooton:

In theory if you had the update channel set to beta throughout beta testing you would get RC2 (or if you just set it that way). I haven't the opportunity to test this as I'm on vacation.

 

I've always had my update channel set to beta on this machine. I am still running RC1 and "update now" tells me there are no updates available, so that tells me that RC2 was not put on the beta channel because it was already dubbed the gold release at birth, so perhaps it wasn't ever considered a beta at all.

Being on vacation for a while is precisely the scenario I was thinking of when I said we should always get the gold release. If you missed a beta version or two while on vacation and came back after it had gone gold, if the gold release were not put on the beta channel, you could be stuck with some old beta version, reporting bugs that were completely irrelevant now. Basically, any time something is released which supersedes a beta, whether the new thing is considered a beta or a stable version, it should go on the beta channel. (SRs only supersede a beta if there isn't a newer beta already in testing.) As beta testers, we go on testing and reporting bugs in whatever version we're using, so we should have the latest.

I actually think we both are on the same page about this. I was just elaborating my reasoning a bit more, not trying to be argumentative. Hope it didn't come across as such. Cheers!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 7:17 PM

Rosie Perera:
If you missed a beta version or two while on vacation and came back after it had gone gold, if the gold release were not put on the beta channel, you could be stuck with some old beta version, reporting bugs that were completely irrelevant now.

That would be unfortunate but not important. I always check the status of beta testing + SR's & resources before allowing any downloads (Auto Download = NO). I would hope that other testers do the same. When I get home I'll download 4.0e (?) and 4.0d Stable + 2 GB resources to the desktop computer and then update the laptop!

Rosie Perera:
Basically, any time something is released which supersedes a beta, whether the new thing is considered a beta or a stable version, it should go on the beta channel. (SRs only supersede a beta if there isn't a newer beta already in testing.) As beta testers, we go on testing and reporting bugs in whatever version we're using, so we should have the latest.

But that's where we differ. I don't want SR's on my test system nor on the beta channel just because I keep the update channel on beta! We might as well demand beta releases on the Stable channel if the name Beta no longer has any significance!

 

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 9:50 PM

Dave Hooton:

But that's where we differ. I don't want SR's on my test system nor on the beta channel just because I keep the update channel on beta! We might as well demand beta releases on the Stable channel if the name Beta no longer has any significance! 

Well, I disagree. Although people who don't want to be beta testers should never be exposed to beta versions, the converse isn't true. Beta testers should have no reason not to want to play with so-called "stable" releases (gold and SR). The name "stable" is just an expectation, not a guarantee. Stable releases have been known to have serious bugs in them too, and those bugs need to be reported. I wouldn't expect non beta-testers to take the time to figure out how to reproduce a crashing bug and write up a useful bug report about it. That is why beta testers ought to be using the SRs, too. I'm quite certain that beta testers of Windows use the Service Packs. There could be serious security flaws that would put them at great risk if they don't. Logos isn't likely to be as critical as Windows in its SR fixes, but the analogy is still a reasonable one to draw. Just because we were testing the pre-release version to make sure it was stable enough to ship doesn't mean Logos should want us to stop testing anything (except some old outdated beta version) for several weeks until the next beta cycle starts. We should be using the latest release to find and report bugs in. That is the point of footnote #2 in the update channels table (see below).

According to the the second table on http://wiki.logos.com/Update_Channels, if I'm on the beta channel, running a beta version, I will/should get the release candidate (see 1 in graphic below). Still on the beta channel, running a RC, I should also get subsequent RC's (2). Still on the beta channel running a RC, once the gold is released, I should get that (3). Now, still on the beta channel, running the gold release, if a SR is released prior to the next beta cycle starting, I will/should also get that SR (4). There's a "Yes" in that column of the chart, with a footnote 2 saying "You will always receive the latest version, by version number, not by date. If a new beta cycle starts before a Service Release is published you will get the Beta and not the Service Release." Now once I've got that SR, I'm still on the beta channel (as long as I haven't manually changed it, which I never do), and when the next beta cycle starts, I will get that beta (5).

I understand the descriptive text at the top of that update channels wiki page to mean that once I set my channel to beta it stays that way come hell or high water, regardless of what releases I get on that channel. It says, "It will lock an installation on a particular update channel."

So according to that chart, as a beta tester who has manually set my update channel to beta, and never changed it, I would expect my experience of updates to run like this:

... --> 4.0d Beta 3 --> 4.0d Beta 4 --> 4.0d RC1 --> 4.0d RC2 --> 4.0d Gold --> 4.0e Beta 1 -->

OR... if a SR for 4.0d is released before the 4.0e beta cycle begins...

(the same up to here)... --> 4.0d RC2 --> 4.0d Gold --> 4.0d SR1 --> 4.0e Beta 1 --> ...

All without having to change my update channel at all. It should stay on beta.

If it doesn't work this way currently, I'm arguing that it should, for the reasons I've listed above, and I also would submit that the chart is wrong or misleading or incomplete. If updating on the beta channel from beta to RC or from RC to gold does force you back onto the default or stable channel when you'd been on the beta channel by choice (which I don't think it should), and if there's no budging from Logos on that policy, then this chart needs one more column saying what channel you will end up on after the update. And I'll go away disappointed.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 10:22 PM

Like Dave I like the way it is currently. When/if I download the stable release, I also want to change the update channel to default. In other words, I don't want additional betas until I choose to take that installation back to beta. I frequently skip the first two or three betas of a release, waiting until I have confidence in basic stability for testing. I am quite willing to let others fight the multiple crashes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 10:44 PM

MJ. Smith:

Like Dave I like the way it is currently. When/if I download the stable release, I also want to change the update channel to default. In other words, I don't want additional betas until I choose to take that installation back to beta. I frequently skip the first two or three betas of a release, waiting until I have confidence in basic stability for testing. I am quite willing to let others fight the multiple crashes.

 

It sounds like Dave wants only betas and never stable releases (except perhaps gold since it's the same as a release candidate) on his beta testing machine which stays on the beta channel all the time. Maybe I'm misunderstanding him. He doesn't want the service releases. I'm assuming you do.

Anyway, what I'm suggesting wouldn't affect you, since you run with the Default behavior. When you download a new beta manually, you are not in the state of having locked in the beta channel, which I am. All I'm proposing is that those who have manually chosen to always be on the beta channel would not have that changed out from under them without them asking for it.

I'm would be quite willing to switch manually to stable if I ever wanted to be back on the stable channel and avoid future betas until they start getting stable. But I'm one of those eager beavers who can't wait to see what's in 4.0e.

However, more to the point of what this thread was originally about, Richard Lyall and I think something is broken now in the release channel, or a human error was made when RC2 was pushed out and they neglected to push it out on the beta channel as well as the stable channel as they should have done. I'm on the beta channel and I am stuck at 4.0d RC1 and will never go any further until 4.0e Beta 1 comes out. I would manually have to change my channel to default or stable to get the gold release. My understanding of the update channels table is that this isn't the way it's supposed to work.

I know I could fix this problem right now by changing channels, but I'm keeping it this way for now until we figure out if there is something in the automated process that needs to be fixed or if it was just an oversight by whoever did the release. Nobody from Logos has answered this thread so far, though.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 10:47 PM

Rosie Perera:
Anyway, what I'm suggesting wouldn't affect you, since you run with the Default behavior.

No, I generally run in the beta channel. What I said was WHEN/IF I download a gold into the test application I also set the update channel to default.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2010 11:16 PM

MJ. Smith:

Rosie Perera:
Anyway, what I'm suggesting wouldn't affect you, since you run with the Default behavior.

No, I generally run in the beta channel. What I said was WHEN/IF I download a gold into the test application I also set the update channel to default.

I think we're talking circles around each other. That's exactly what I do too, if I fear the first beta of a new cycle is going to be risky. So if you're going to manually set the update channel to default anyway after downloading a gold release, I'm not sure why it would matter to let you (and all of us beta testers) get that gold release on the beta channel. Those of us who don't want to switch to default wouldn't have to. And those like you wouldn't have to do anything differently than the way you're doing it now. If you run with Automatically Download Updates set to "No" you get a chance to see when the gold releases and SRs are coming and can choose to take them only when/if you want them. And once you've set your channel to default you can rest easy and not worry about getting an unwanted beta.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 2 2010 7:50 AM

Rosie Perera:
Just because we were testing the pre-release version to make sure it was stable enough to ship doesn't mean Logos should want us to stop testing anything (except some old outdated beta version) for several weeks until the next beta cycle starts.

Testing, or what we test, is irrelevant to a discussion on the use of the update channel. I test on both machines and can always compare a beta version to the current Gold version. If you want to test on one system it can be a beta or a Gold version as you choose! Use of the update channel only facilitates/decides how you update.

Rosie Perera:
If it doesn't work this way currently, I'm arguing that it should, for the reasons I've listed above, and I also would submit that the chart is wrong or misleading or incomplete.

The chart is a presumption, driven by some users' expectations. It has not been confirmed as policy by Logos.

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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