Apple Silicon

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This post has 100 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 1182
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2020 2:26 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

David Wanat:
Regarding the concern over what happens to intel Macs after the shift to ARM, ...

Anticipating Apple to support Intel Macs for years after Apple stops selling them:

Note: OS X 10.4 Tiger could run mac OS 9 "Classic" applications on G4 Mac Mini => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini with Apple Support for almost eight years after 9.2.2 release. End of Apple Support meant any new issues would not be fixed, but older hardware could continue to run older software until hardware failed (similar to existing Libronix 3.0g being usable offline after security updates on Faithlife servers cut off online usability about a year before Faithlife shutdown Libronix servers).

Another thought is using Apple Trade-In toward an Apple Silicon Mac => https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in OR OWC Trade-In, used Macs and Tablets => https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Apple_Systems/Used/Macs_and_Tablets while Apple is still selling Intel Macs.

Keep Smiling Smile 

Yes, I’m not posting this out of alarmism. I’m just saying that even in a worst case scenario, the current hardware wouldn’t be junk

WIN 10 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 2718
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2020 5:17 PM

I still remember when my G4 Mac died. I was so mad that I needed to get a new Mac. That's when Logos 4 debuted. L4 wouldn't have run on the G4.

God always have everything worked out before we do.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 10 2020 5:35 AM

Josh:

JT (alabama24):

or drop support for Mac altogether. 

Kicking to the curb tens of thousands of lifelong costumers who have invested (and will continue to invest) millions of dollars into Logos software? I can't see that happening.

No, I don't either. Out of context, it might seem like that is what I said. In context, I was replying to someone who said that he didn't think FL would develop the main Logos app for ARM. My answer was that they would have to do so... "or drop support for Mac altogether." And that is true.

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Posts 1145
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 12 2020 10:27 AM

If you look in your 'About Logos' menu item you can see all the licensing details of frameworks used to build Logos. It's a good place to get a feel for how complex a port to apple silicon might be. Apple have been issuing patches to some open source frameworks where necessary, mono being an example. My guess is it will be non-trivial in the sense that it will take some quite clever tweaks but I doubt any substantial rewrites unless I'm missing something. My personal opinion / estimate is that Logos will be 'native' on apple silicon very soon.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 40
Nick Stapleton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 12 2020 10:49 AM

John Goodman:

If you look in your 'About Logos' menu item you can see all the licensing details of frameworks used to build Logos. It's a good place to get a feel for how complex a port to apple silicon might be. Apple have been issuing patches to some open source frameworks where necessary, mono being an example. My guess is it will be non-trivial in the sense that it will take some quite clever tweaks but I doubt any substantial rewrites unless I'm missing something. My personal opinion / estimate is that Logos will be 'native' on apple silicon very soon.

I like your take on it, John. I hope you're right!

Posts 24
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2020 2:53 PM

Any thoughts on Apple Silicon now? Apple recently announced an event scheduled for November 10. Its very likely they will debut new MacBooks that contain the new chips.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2020 7:48 PM

I’d like to know the official response to this too.

My educated guess:

  • in the end they will support it
  • it takes time, tons of time for complicated applications, and Logos is complicated (a lot of dependencies, such as the speech to audio)
  • it should be less complicated then Adobe CC, as they uses some very old API on Mac (while probably not a lot). But, Logos probably has less budget than Adobe
  • it will run on day 1, via Rosetta 2, not ideal, but it will run
  • its iPadOS version will also run on day 1, which is interesting. Now you have a single device that can both run the mobile and desktop versions (and the web version). So you can choose depending on applications (light reading, intensive study…)
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 4:25 AM

Logos users should not purchase one of these computers if they intend to use Logos on it until after FL has made official comments. They will need to have a device in hand to test first. 

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Posts 2718
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 3:41 PM

JT (alabama24):
Logos users should not purchase one of these computers if they intend to use Logos on it until after FL has made official comments. They will need to have a device in hand to test first. 

I think we actually need to hear about the new macOS compatibility first which should be forthcoming any day now. I expect that will be no problem at all. 

If you are really happy with your Intel Mac, you probably want to hold off on the first-gen Apple Silicon. The typical experience puts much better performance on the iteration of Apple hardware. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 6:08 PM

mab:
I think we actually need to hear about the new macOS compatibility first

I had issues to begin with (continual crashes), but it seems pretty stable now. I would not encourage people to update, however, until FL gives the thumbs up. 

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Posts 2098
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:16 PM

Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.

Nathan Parker

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:19 PM

Nathan Parker:

Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.

I assume you mean native, not emulated.

See Phil's most recent response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196433/1136254.aspx#1136254 

(Logos unofficially runs under emulation, with some minor styling issues.)

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 2098
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:37 PM

PetahChristian:

Nathan Parker:

Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.

I assume you mean native, not emulated.

See Phil's most recent response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196433/1136254.aspx#1136254 

(Logos unofficially runs under emulation, with some minor styling issues.)

Great. Thanks!

Nathan Parker

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 3:42 AM

Nathan Parker:

Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.

 you may find this useful: https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html

Posts 69
Karl Fritz Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 3:46 AM

Is this the sort of thing that should go for vote on feedback boards to possibly speed things up, I honestly don't know.  But I'd vote for thatBig Smile

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 8:03 AM

Karl Fritz Jr.:
Is this the sort of thing that should go for vote on feedback boards to possibly speed things up

Nope. Several reasons: 

  • FL will have to do this at some point if they want to continue support for Mac. They have indicated that they plan to do so. It isn't an optional thing we would like to have happen... it is an important one which doesn't <need> to happen now but will be necessary in the future. 
  • FL is able to run reports on the specific devices which have installed their apps... so they will know how many users are on Apple Silicon
  • Right now, and for a while, the number of apple silicon users will be small. Very small. It will probably be several years at the earliest until the number of silicon users matches the number of intel users. The number of requests WILL be small. I only hedge that bet because the use of FeedBear is new and if a bunch of us run over there, we might move the needle... but only until others start using it. 

There is no problem in creating a request on Feed Bear, it just isn't necessary, nor is it likely to "speed things up." 

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Posts 3
Charles Tucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 8:12 AM

I wonder if FL has any to track the number of users who have checked into Assurance?  I have.  I've used Logos since version 1.6.  I'm in no hurry to change programs, but I will be getting a new Mac next year.  Oak Tree has already said that Assurance runs now under Rosetta2 and that they are working on supporting the M1 natively.  Is there a reason why FL can't make the same statement?  It sure would make me feel better.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 8:18 AM

Phil said they would like to provide native support for M1 at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196329/1135550.aspx#1135550 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 8:55 AM

JT (alabama24):
There is no problem in creating a request on Feed Bear, it just isn't necessary, nor is it likely to "speed things up."

Voting is more likely to speed things up than not voting.

FL does change priorities for what to work on based on feedback.

I’d encourage people to take advantage of the feedback system FL has provided, even to vote for something that FL will be doing.

Requests also provide useful feedback to us. We can see when a request we’ve voted on moves to “planned,” or to “in production.”

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2020 8:57 AM

Charles Tucker:
Is there a reason why FL can't make the same statement?

I don't remember when or where... it may have been by email! However, I do know that FL intends to continue support for Mac. That would require a move to supporting the M1 natively... but not necessarily soon. It could be in 6 months, but it should be sometime BEFORE Apple drops support for Rosetta2. 

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