WORDsearch books that will not be migrated to Logos

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Posts 555
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 8:02 AM

Ricky,

Way back Logos allowed Thomas Nelson to "produce" their own Logos compatible content, and sell their CD's through bookstores and online sales. They also produce Author packages with video and audio content. Logos did not own the rights to this nor did they control the content. Tagging was minimal, typos never seemed to get fixed and so forth.

Another company called E4 and also Ages software also produced their own CD's and tagged their own books. They also had quality control issues but worse than what Thomas Nelson did.

Logos decided to take matters into their own hands and produce the content for Logos Bible Software. They eliminated all third party vendors, and over time produced their own version of the books others used to provide. For instance Ages used to provide the old Logos edition of the ISBE, Spurgeon's sermons, Adam Clarke commentaries and so forth. All have now been replace by Logos.

Bottom line, you cannot blame Logos for issues arising from old third party vendors who chose not to support their product back in the day, books, video's and audio files. For instance the quality of Journals that Logos produces is of superior quality than that provided by Galaxie, but of course there is a cost difference for that quality. Some don't care, some do, and Logos reinstated them into the Logos ecosystem. Albeit without the Journal tagging which hopefully will eventually be added into Galaxie's product.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 11:24 AM

Mike Binks:

As far as I know, no Wordsearch User has had anything removed from Wordsearch they still have all they had access to through that program. What has happened is that some of those resources have not been transferred to their Logos Accounts.

That being true, and please put me right if it is not so, nobody has lost anything.

I respectfully have to say your facts are not correct and disagrees with what a Faithlife staff posted above about that not happening to all WS users but only some.

We are not talking about resources not yet completed and not yet started, but resources that were in the Logos Migration Status listing and then completely removed without Logos or Faithlife notifying any WS users.

Some other Christian Websites which have forums, I have seen several hundred people complaining they lost several thousand books from their WS libraries, and they were never notified by Logos, and those who said they called Logos customer Service they pointed out that most of those books came from their CDs most of which were so long ago the no longer kept the receipts, nor were they required to do so because those book ownerships licenses were already synchronized with the WORDsearch website and they had backup copies of their licenses.   A couple folks said when they confronted Logos about their missing books and Logos said they had to provide proof of purchase before getting those books back, some staff were so bold as to accuse the WORDsearch users of having pirated those books which they had legally purchased over the years, just like I did.  My Jaw dropped when I read those unwarranted accusations by Logos staff for books legally purchased.   Most those guys were so steaming mad at being falsely accused, that they were leaving Logos and buying the Accordance WORDsearch Crossover bundles being offered to WS users.   I admit that Logos staff has not accused me of pirating those books, but they are treating me like they think that is the case.   They acted like I was like others who would have lost our receipts years ago, but I keep records of everything.   The only stuff I lost were items in two rooms that were destroyed by fire which included some of the original CDs.   I have a 2014 eMail from WORDsearch Customer service where I had been discussing that fire and the lost CDs and asking if I was going to have to repurchase all those CDs, and was told they were Synchronized Ownership for all those CDs in My WORDsearch account and could be downloaded fresh anytime and I would have access to those forever.   Logos when they removed about 2000 some odd books from my migration status made a liar out of that WORDsearch Customer Service.  WORDsearch said I would have those forever, but now Logos says only if I can find those receipts, but now they are ignoring even items I send them receipts for.  Not all my Original CDs were in the rooms destroyed by fire, but some were in my Computer Room, and still have those today.   I sent Logos copies of all the Boxes and CDs I still had and they did not restore those to the Migration Status.   Later I started finding receipts for older CDs and submitted about 10 of those I have found to date.  They later added 2 of those CDs and for the rest I provided proof for, I stopped receiving answers from Logos.   When I sent several another emails to Logos asking about those, I get no replies.   I proved them wrong that they thought I could not find receipts even though it took me several weeks to find those I did and now I fear the rest may have been burned up in that fire mentioned in that email from WORDsearch that I also sent to Logos, with no reply.  My WORDsearch to Logos Migration Status is supposed to have 5,723 resources, but not it only has 2,706 and that is after they added only two missing CDs.

I read reports of others loosing more and some less than I did, but Logos has yet to explain why.   The reply I received was something like they were unable to verify some licenses.   All those licenses are on record in the WORDsearch website and all still there on the WORDsearch web App page www.MyWSB.com, but about half have been removed from Migration Status, but were there initially.   From what I can tell, is Logos left all items that were purchased directly from the WORDsearch bookstore online, but removed all items that had disc licenses that were added to my WORDsearch account as owned by me.  In the old days, we purchased many items by mail via Authorized Distributors of WORDsearch software, because online purchasing was not as common as it is these days.   Some of us did not yet trust buying online for fear of having our accounts robbed.   Most my purchase were by Check, by mail, but only these past 5 years were my purchases from the WORDsearch online store.   So according the Faithlife post above, some, but not all, of us older WORDsearch users had our CDs removed from our migration if it was not recorded in the Online Books Store, which eliminated about half the books I purchase over the years.   Last few years I have been a poor person and purchased much less than before.  Some of the bundles I purchased online at a great discount due to the dynamic pricing because of those many books I already had on those CDs that Logos removed from my migration status.   Logos is being inconsistent.   If they are removing those CDs purchased from Authorized WORDsearch Distributors, then they need to also remove all those book which are included on other larger libraries that were discounted because I already owned those books in those CDs they removed from my account.

I had questioned why Logos staff keeps telling us we can repurchase all those missing resources if available in Logos from them now.   With all I had seen about Logos love of Money and removing such large number of books, that seemed like a gimic to trick us to repurchase those resources, because the bottom line is profit.   President and CEO Bob Pritchett said in a post here, one of the reasons he did not want Logos to be Christian  was it was a For-Profit Company and Logos does not have a Soul.   For-Profit seems to mean two things:  1) Tax Status; and 2) goal is to make as much profit as possible, as seen in recent inflated discounts that are not real discounts.   And not having a Soul, that means that Logos does not have to apply Christian Principles of Honestly and integrity since they have no soul and are not accountable to God because, as Bob said they are only a Business, not a person with a soul.

A lot of the positive things I read here about Logos is true, and they have treated a lot of folks here great, and I am glad they have done well by you others here, but those of us that were singled out for some unstated reason, they have created a lot of enemies that have bailed ship after such treatment.   I am not just one person treated like this, but I am the one that did not jump ship, because I have too much invested here of the years.

You would think loyalty for a Customer of both Logos and WORDsearch for so many years and all I spent on both when I did have money would count for something, and I sure do not deserve to be treated the way Logos has treated me as of late.

Enough said.   I should not even have said what I did, but I feel like the truth needs to be declared.  Or at least got off my Chest since this treatment is eating me up with all the other health issues I have.

Posts 273
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 12:40 PM

I am sorry for your problem. 

If I was Logos... and you said you had something that did not show in the records that WS had... then I, like Logos, would ask you to produce your license and I, like Logos have said, would make it right.

Now having said that....  I suggest you get with Logos Support and work all this out. If you have called them already.... call again... persistence does pay.... even with God. Smile

Other than that....  I would say, it's not the Christian way to just rant about it. No offense meant. Just saying.

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 30825
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 2:37 PM

xnman:
If I was Logos... and you said you had something that did not show in the records that WS had... then I, like Logos, would ask you to produce your license and I, like Logos have said, would make it right.

I can vouch for the fact that they do for the early Libronix products -- I've been keeping my eyes out for one particular disk for more than a decade.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1
Jeffrey Lefever | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2020 6:58 AM

I can say I understand your frustration. You are not alone. I have lost many books over the years from sellouts give a ways or whatever anyone wants to call or label a product changing from 1 owner to another. With the transfer from Lifeway/Wordsearch to Logos I was told to show proof of cd's for Doxa Digital purchases made. I have found 3 but as I remember the rest were downloads. I have the downloaded file on my computer but no proof of cd purchase. I don't have a Logos cd it was a download file. There are many more items/books then Doxa Digital but mentioned those as recent. The fact is what I was to believe I owned is really only as good as it being on my computer. I was led to believe I owned Doxa Digital titles through Wordsearch/Lifeway but will possibly only ever own them as long as they remain on my computer. I didn't realize that Doxa Digital was really never on my Wordsearch account as titles owned. What happens after Wordsearch disappears I still don't have the cd's for Doxa Digital so no way to have them added to my Logos account.

Posts 5
Cecil Cox | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 5:25 AM

Pack of lies. I have lost over half of my library. After going round robin with your support, it was a nightmare. All they wanted to do was sell me a new package of Logos for like $800 . Now I can’t even use my WORDSearch. Explain that!

Posts 2722
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 5:43 AM

If any of the books are in step format Google step reader for help.  [[you may need the original CD]]

Posts 70
John Simpson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 10:38 AM

Ricky Daugherty:
Some other Christian Websites which have forums, I have seen several hundred people complaining they lost several thousand books from their WS libraries

Could you point us to those forums? I'd be interested in seeing the comments. I have not had any issues with my large library, but I was careful to contact Wordsearch a few years ago when Bibleworks folded to make sure all my purchases were recorded. There were many books I had gotten from serial number unlock or CD that had not been automatically registered to my account.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 2:59 PM

John Simpson:


Ricky Daugherty:
Some other Christian Websites which have forums, I have seen several hundred people complaining they lost several thousand books from their WS libraries


Could you point us to those forums? I'd be interested in seeing the comments. I have not had any issues with my large library, but I was careful to contact Wordsearch a few years ago when Bibleworks folded to make sure all my purchases were recorded. There were many books I had gotten from serial number unlock or CD that had not been automatically registered to my account.




There are several different Christian websites where I saw similar discussions.  Too many to list here, but you can search for them on Google.   Many were venting their anger after Logos told them if they can not find their receipts, they would be glad to sell them those resources, they already paid for, ignoring the fact that WORDsearch recognized all those removed books as legally purchased.


With me I had many discussions with WORDsearch staff over the years, and each time we discussed a different package I had and items were missing in other upgrades for dynamic pricing but those were in my WORDsearch account, Customer Service added those to my Online Purchases.   But that is where the problem lies, I had many older WS CDs that I never had a problem with and I did get dynamic upgrade pricing on bundled books based on those older CDs which Logos has since removed, so because I never discussed those CDs or books, those were never added to my Online Purchase History like the other items we discussed were added, and it is those items that Logos is demanding receipts for and while I found many, I could not find them all.   WORDsearch Customer Service had no problem recognizing I owned all those items that were in my Account via CD licenses synced with my Account, but not placed in the Online books story purchase history, and that is what Logos demands proof of purchase for even though WORDsearch Staff had no problem recognizing I owned those.


Those items Logos took away, are in my WORDsearch Account but not in the Bookstore history, and WORDsearch recognized that ownership, but Logos rejected those.   Based on all I saw and read, I believe Logos thought those of us who owned very large WORDsearch libraries (and in my case Have a very large Logos library) that; 1) we could afford to repurchase those again, and 2) we would not be able to find those receipts for those CDs; and 3)  they could use that as a tactic to get us to buy those again from Logos.   It is my contention, that Logos thought if we spent that much for that many books, and that we most likely could not find receipts for all those CDs, that we more than likely would repurchase all those CDs from Logos.  Logos left the items that were in the Online Books Store History for our accounts, and took items that were licensed via those CD purchases.  They failed to consider some of us may still have those older receipts, and the fact that while in the past when I was working I could afford to buy all those books then, that now that I am disabled and not working, and therefore, I can not afford to repurchase all those books again, nor should I have to.   If WORDsearch recognized I owned those, and even told me (in writing via email which I still have) that I would have those forever because their ownership was synchronized with my account, then why would Logos now demand proof, unless they have a hidden agenda to trick us to rebuy books we already paid for and have license to in our Account.


Plus the fact that I have provided them with proof of several of those WORDsearch CDs legally purchased from Authorized Distributors, like Christian Book Distributors, but they still refuse to restore those books even after receiving said proof, and now Logos refuses to even talk to me about those, and ignores many many eMails to Customer Service about the proof they already received.   Several here talk about their faith that Logos will make it right, but where is the evidence they will, when they refuse to honor  their own word that they would restore the books they removed from my account after I provided them the proof they demanded.


For those that defend their Faith in Logos actions and belief that Logos will make it right, how do you explain their refusal to honor their word and refusal to answer my emails?   The fact that I have seen and have proof that Logos has used dishonest tactics to make sales with things like inflated discounts that were not real, then only logical contention I can concluded is Logos is refusing to restore those expecting me to repurchase books I already owned licenses to.

Logos never made me provide proof of purchase from all my Logos 2 and Logos 3 books I had which were synchronized with the Libronix Server years ago, but now expect proof for all the earlier version WORDsearch CDs that had ownership already synchronized with my WORDsearch account.  And a lot of those WS CDs were purchased from the same authorized distributors as those Logos 2 and Logos 3 CDs.  There is a double standard which appears to discriminate, especially since they do not demand proof for others who never lost their CD purchases from their WS account.

Wondering if I need to report this for an investigation as a possible Class Action Lawsuit,  because so many others were treated the same way.  See https://topclassactions.com/start-a-class-action/ where such can be reported for investigation and may lead to a Class Action Lawsuit if they find grounds to file after their investigation.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 3:45 PM

Cecil Cox:

Pack of lies. I have lost over half of my library. After going round robin with your support, it was a nightmare. All they wanted to do was sell me a new package of Logos for like $800 . Now I can’t even use my WORDSearch. Explain that!

While I share your pain and experience, also losing a little under half, I did not experience any loss in WORDsearch where everything still is there.  Others only lost those books in the Migration Status, but those were still uneffected in their WORDsearch 12 on their PCs and still in their Online App (www.MyWSB.com).   So not sure why you lost your WORDsearch.   You should be able to restore your licenses from the website.

For me should I install WS12 on a new PC, as soon as I log in, all the books I had, including the ones Logos removed from us, still will unlock and download fresh from the WORDsearch website.  That is what WORDsearch Customer Support emailed me about in 2014 when I had a fire that burned 2 rooms and I was asking if I needed to repurchase those CDs, and received the following  reply:

Lifeway Customer Service:

Subject: WORDSearch CDs Lost in Fire Damage

Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 14:09:23 -0500

Greetings XXX,


Thank you for your email. Please do not worry about those books, because I see the books for all those
CDs are currently in your WORDsearch library and their unlocks have been stored on our website when
your latest version synchronized the ownership of those books with your account. That means, because
they are in your account now and recorded on our website you will have them forever with all future
upgrades of our WORDsearch software. That means you will not have to repurchase any of those CDs
because you already have them all in your library and therefore you have them in your account, so should
you need to reinstall them later on a different computer, all those books will be available when you sign
into your account with our software, and it will download all those books from our online server.


So in short you will not have to repurchase any of them, because they were all upgraded to the
latest version and synchronized ownership with your account. Also you have the option to backup
the unlocks and save on an external disc, and after any new reinstall, you can restore those
backups and you can redownload all those books fresh from our website without those CDs.


If you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to contact us any time and our staff will be able to
assist you further. Thank you again for your understanding and patience and thank you for allowing us to
serve you.


Have a nice day and God Bless you in your studies.

Logos made that guy a liar with their actions to the contrary!

Plus someone else above said:

xnman:

I am sorry for your problem. 

If I was Logos... and you said you had something that did not show in the records that WS had... then I, like Logos, would ask you to produce your license and I, like Logos have said, would make it right.

Now having said that....  I suggest you get with Logos Support and work all this out. If you have called them already.... call again... persistence does pay.... even with God. Smile

Other than that....  I would say, it's not the Christian way to just rant about it. No offense meant. Just saying.

..., but that is not the case.  We have those books registered in our WORDsearch account.  Those CDs had ownership syncronized with our WORDsearch accounts, but not added to the Online Bookstore Purchase History which is only for the On-line purchases, but not CDs purchased from Authorized Distributors of WORDsearch CDs.   That fact that those books initially were in our Migration Status, shows they were in our account but were just not in the Online Bookstore Purchases because they were purchased from Authorized Distributers on WORDsearch CDs which were licensed with our Accounts from those CDs.

Posts 70
John Simpson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 4:34 PM

Ricky Daugherty:
There are several different Christian websites where I saw similar discussions.  Too many to list here, but you can search for them on Google.

I have done several Google & Bing searches and have not found any Wordsearch/Faithlife discussions from users, so a list would be appreciated.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 4:51 PM

John Simpson:

I have done several Google & Bing searches and have not found any Wordsearch/Faithlife discussions from users, so a list would be appreciated.

I visit so many sites, I can not possibly remember then all.  I was looking for other discussions when finding those posts on other forums.   I suggest you do not search for WORDsearch or Faithlife or even Logos, but instead search for Christian Forums, then when visiting those sites, then search for what you are looking for such as WORDsearch and/or Logos after getting on those forums.

Because not all sites get scanned by Google, so you may have to create forum accounts and log in before you can search for such items on those various forums.

I just remember seeing those posts,  but not exactly where, but you can see a similar post just a few posts above in this thread.  I mostly remember my shock when reading what was posted on some, and other posts did have links to other forums that discussed this subject.   So if you can find one of those posts, it is like a Thompson Chain Reference where one link takes you to another, which takes you to another, etc.

But that is why I am posting here, because I can remember this site, being I have about 8,000 logos books and been using Logos since Version 2.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
Based on all I saw and read, I believe Logos thought those of us who owned very large WORDsearch libraries (and in my case Have a very large Logos library) that; 1) we could afford to repurchase those again, and 2) we would not be able to find those receipts for those CDs; and 3)  they could use that as a tactic to get us to buy those again from Logos.   It is my contention, that Logos thought if we spent that much for that many books, and that we most likely could not find receipts for all those CDs, that we more than likely would repurchase all those CDs from Logos.

This is a baseless, false, and scurrilous accusation.

There are a small number of users for which the Wordsearch Sales database (that we acquired from LifeWay) simply doesn't provide proof of ownership for the resources in their Wordsearch desktop account. You are one of those users. There are over 2,800 licenses on your account that are recorded in the Sales database, and for which we have provided you with Logos versions. But there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership.

(These were initially unlocked on your Logos account when we first performed the migration. This was our mistake: we should never have unlocked them (because we had no proof of ownership), and it looked like you lost resources when they were re-locked.)

Before we provide a license in Logos for 7,055 pieces of copyrighted material (on which we have a moral and contractual responsibility to pay royalties), we're asking you to provide proof of ownership. Until that is furnished, you can keep using that content in Wordsearch, but we will not provide a complimentary Logos version of that content.

Ricky Daugherty:
Plus the fact that I have provided them with proof of several of those WORDsearch CDs legally purchased from Authorized Distributors, like Christian Book Distributors, but they still refuse to restore those books even after receiving said proof

I'll follow up on this. If we have received the proof, we should unlock them.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 5:14 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Ricky Daugherty:
Plus the fact that I have provided them with proof of several of those WORDsearch CDs legally purchased from Authorized Distributors, like Christian Book Distributors, but they still refuse to restore those books even after receiving said proof

I'll follow up on this. If we have received the proof, we should unlock them.

Thank you for being willing to help, however, that does not explained why you only did this to some and for others you left their CDs that were not purchased from the On-line Book Store.  Plus it does not explain why multiple emails to Logos are completely ignored leaving me to feel I have been blacklisted.  Is that any way to treat someone who has been a customer with Logos since Logos 2 and who has spent so much over the years, (and lately on a fixed SSI budget) from Logos so far?

While I read many angry posts about this happening, I read others that replied that said they have all their CDs that were not purchased in the Online Books Store still in their Logos Migration Status.  Guess I would not be as upset if you did the same (requiring proof of purchase for all WORDsearch user's CDs) of all WORDseach users, but since you did not require the same proof from all WORDsearch users, that is not right and violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution and amounts to discrimination.

While I appreciate your denial of my contention above, I do not see the facts that disprove what I contended.  I would love to believe there was no greedy malicious intent, but you yourself said you did not do this to all users, and I do not have the facts about others it happened to and whether or not they also had a large library or if some actually did have smaller library.

So whether or not your assertion is true, let me restate my contention that without other information it has the appearance of what I suspect even if my contention is not true.   You folks left us with very little information as to what was going on, and because you never provided any notice about your actions, all we can do is speculate, due to lack of information from Logos.

If my assertion is incorrect, I will be glad to retract my contention and admit on the record I was wrong.  But I will need evidence to know I was wrong.

But for now, I will acknowledge my contention could be wrong, but have no way to know otherwise with all I saw and read by others this happened to.  So for now, my contention is not a known fact, but my suspicion from all I have seen.

PS.

You said, "But there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership."  From my before and after list, I believe that should be closer to 2000, not 7000, otherwise you have to remove many more books from my Migration.   That 7055 would remove all the books you say are in the Online Bookstore history.   I suspect that number may have been before you removed the other books, but that number is not correct as you stated it.  Maybe that number was a typo.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 6:16 PM

John Simpson:

Ricky Daugherty:
I visit so many sites, I can not possibly remember then all. 

You don't have the sites bookmarked?

No, sorry!   As I said I was searching for another topic, and was following URL links from one site to another, so no I did not bookmark those.   Besides I do not bookmark any websites.   Sites I want to save, I copy the URL from the browser and past into Shortcuts in a folder with shortcuts.

Also a few may be other's personal blogs.   I can not remember every website I went to that far back.   I am very old and my memory does not work that well.   Also I suspect since others were angry when posting, when they settled down later, I suspect a few of those may have had the sense to remove their posts.  I know if I said some of that stuff in anger, I might have been embarrased to know I said some of what I read, that I would have later deleted my post.   But some may not have had such a conscience and left their posts, and some were not that angry but were more factual.

There was a lot of speculation on some of those sites that suggested what I did, because the most frequent quote in 90% of those posts talked about how Logos staff said something like "we can sell you those again", but using different words that said the same thing.

I doubt you would find out more than what I have posted here, except see how upset most those folks were and venting anger believing Logos to be corrupt, even though Logos above says they are not.  Their words, not mine, but I am waiting to see proof they are wrong.  The fact that their staff lied to me and failed to honor their word when I provided proof for some, makes me inclined to believe their assertions.  Plus the fact that WORDsearch knows we purchased those, but Logos requires proof, makes me question their motive.  It has an appearance that is not good.

I quoted a Bible verse above that says "1Th_5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.", but that is not being avoided here or disproved.   They may indeed not be evil, yet they have allowed the appearance of bad faith.  But the Jury is out and decision is not final yet.

So all I can say is sorry.

Posts 555
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2021 7:09 PM

Ricky,

I've known Logos for almost 25 years, I regularly visit the forums, and can say I trust them to do the right thing and even more than the right thing. If Bradley is having a problem with your account, there must be more to it than what you are suggesting. You need to work it out between you and him.

I too can't find on the web all those disgruntled WS customers. Sure there are a few, but you paint a much blacker picture of what supposedly Faithlife has done to select WS customers. Even on the Accordance web there are no complainers, just customers preferring one software over another. Where is the hue and cry you seem to imply is out there?

I suggest you quit trying to drum up support for your view of what is happening to you and quit slandering Logos. Just call and work things out with them. 

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
While I appreciate your denial of my contention above, I do not see the facts that disprove what I contended.  I would love to believe there was no greedy malicious intent, but you yourself said you did not do this to all users, and I do not have the facts about others it happened to and whether or not they also had a large library or if some actually did have smaller library.

I don't know how to prove this to you, but I was in dozens of meetings totaling hundreds of hours of discussion about the Wordsearch acquisition, and I never heard even a hint of a plan to make Wordsearch users repurchase their libraries in Logos.

Ricky Daugherty:
You said, "But there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership."  From my before and after list, I believe that should be closer to 2000, not 7000, otherwise you have to remove many more books from my Migration.   That 7055 would remove all the books you say are in the Online Bookstore history.   I suspect that number may have been before you removed the other books, but that number is not correct as you stated it.  Maybe that number was a typo.

According to the data we received from LifeWay, your account has 242 orders comprising 2,268 unique CROSS IDs (book IDs). You have been given complementary Logos editions of these resources (listed on your library migration page).

Your account also has 7,055 "self reported" licenses (these could be from CD backups or other sources). This is not a typo.

Maybe the LifeWay data was corrupted. Maybe your account was hacked. Maybe someone found a way to crack Wordsearch's DRM then transferred their library to you. Maybe these were all completely legal purchases. I don't know. But we have reasons to be suspicious of this data, and until you (and other customers in similar situations) can provide proof of purchase, we are not treating these as legitimate licenses that we will automatically be transferring into Logos.

Posts 2722
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 6:10 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

There are over 2,800 licenses on your account that are recorded in the Sales database, and for which we have provided you with Logos versions. But there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership.

(...) I'll follow up on this. If we have received the proof, we should unlock them. 

Question 1: "there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership."

Where are the records of these "additional 7,055 unlocks"?  Are they anywhere on any WORDsearch data base?  If so then I would read that as that WORDsearch had accepted that the user had rights to the resources. Had WORDsearch unlocked the resources for the user or did the third party?  Did WORDsearch recognize the purchase from some third party and because some long ago employee at WORDsearch "forgot" to also add it to the "Sales database"  now the user can not use the resource because WORDsearch said OK but because it is not in the "Sales database" FL says NO!

Question 2: how could someone add "7,055 unlocks" to a WORDsearch installation if they did not buy them from WORDsearch or some authorized WORDsearch third party?  [[Or is that why WORDsearch went under because it was so easy to just add unauthorized resources?]] 

EDIT ADD:

I also saw your reply "Maybe the LifeWay data was corrupted. Maybe your account was hacked. Maybe someone found a way to crack Wordsearch's DRM then transferred their library to you. Maybe these were all completely legal purchases. I don't know. But we have reasons to be suspicious of this data, and until you (and other customers in similar situations) can provide proof of purchase, we are not treating these as legitimate licenses that we will automatically be transferring into Logos."

My thought [as opposed to what should really happen] is that if WORDsearch accepted the resource as legitimate then FL might want to consider that as WORDsearch accepted the resource as legitimate then on the copyright issue WORDsearch took the rights to the resource as legitimate.  

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LogosEmployee

David Ames:
My thought [as opposed to what should really happen] is that if WORDsearch accepted the resource as legitimate then FL might want to consider that as WORDsearch accepted the resource as legitimate then on the copyright issue WORDsearch took the rights to the resource as legitimate.

We're not taking away the licenses: they can be used in Wordsearch (as long as that program works, which could be a very long time if you set it up in a VM).

However, I don't believe we're under any obligation to give away corresponding Logos licenses. (And that's true for any WS customer. It would have been completely legal--though perhaps a bad business decision--for us to buy Wordsearch, shut it down immediately, and tell everyone they have to start over at Logos, maybe with a 10% crossgrade discount if we were feeling generous. Obviously we chose the more customer-friendly route of trying to replicate customers' libraries as closely as possible in Logos--an expensive and time-consuming task we're still working on.)

And note that having a Logos license doesn't just provide access to the content: having a license for a resource enables dynamic pricing on any bundle containing that content. I don't believe that this was a feature of the Wordsearch Store, so that's an additional (and completely new) benefit of having the content in Logos, besides all the other advanced features of our platform.

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