WORDsearch books that will not be migrated to Logos

Page 3 of 4 (65 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 64 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 10:55 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

...

There are a small number of users for which the Wordsearch Sales database (that we acquired from LifeWay) simply doesn't provide proof of ownership for the resources in their Wordsearch desktop account. You are one of those users. There are over 2,800 licenses on your account that are recorded in the Sales database, and for which we have provided you with Logos versions. But there are an additional 7,055 unlocks associated with your account for which we cannot establish a legitimate basis of ownership.

Before we provide a license in Logos for 7,055 pieces of copyrighted material (on which we have a moral and contractual responsibility to pay royalties), we're asking you to provide proof of ownership. Until that is furnished, you can keep using that content in Wordsearch, but we will not provide a complimentary Logos version of that content.

...

The reason I dispute your 7,055 count is first of all I only have 4004 resources in WORDsearch.   Yes I know you count books differently, because some books in WS are multi volume and you count individual volumes.

Second, lets use your own data.   Your WORDsearch to Logos Migration data listed 5,723 books before you removed some from that list, and now after your removed those, the list currently has a count of 2,706 that are still in my migration status which you claim comes from those books which are found in the WORDsearch online bookstore history.  The difference is 3,017 which was higher than I guessed I had lost.   So I now see it was more than half, not less than half as I previously guessed.

Where, or how did I get my numbers?   I kept going to your migration status page at https://www.logos.com/wordsearch/library-migration, then I would highlight every entry in that page and copy it to the clipboard.  Next I would past the full list into a .txt file.   Then I open that text file with Notepad++ which has a line number for each row.   After I delete the heading information and delete the footer information, each row is each entry in your migration status.   Because I saved those multiple times, I have a before and after image and can clearly see the counts you have recorded.

I admit that as I monitored those counts every day, I did see them change over time, because I saw some books were repeated under different book IDs and later doing text compares to see what was removed, I see you consolidated repeat titles under a single book ID entry.

So if your data is counting duplicate licenses that you later consolidated, that might account for an increased number on your report, but I still doubt it would be that high, because they did not remove that many duplicate titles to account for the numbers you listed.

So I simply do not know where you got those numbers, because that does not match the data you previously reported to me in those migration status counts.

If you say, "There are over 2,800 licenses on your account that are recorded in the Sales database" and my migration status lists only 2,706 resources being migrated, then I wonder did you round up?  2,800 - 2,706 = 94.   And your migration status includes counts of books not started and not finished as well as finished.   So where are the other 94 books you say I was granted under your migration transition?

And if my list before those being removed counted at 5,723, then how do you come up with 7,055 which is more than you previously reported you found before you removed the rest.

Please forgive me but I am confused.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 11:32 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Maybe the LifeWay data was corrupted. Maybe your account was hacked. Maybe someone found a way to crack Wordsearch's DRM then transferred their library to you. Maybe these were all completely legal purchases. I don't know. But we have reasons to be suspicious of this data, and until you (and other customers in similar situations) can provide proof of purchase, we are not treating these as legitimate licenses that we will automatically be transferring into Logos.

Such a suggestion that "Maybe your account was hacked." would concern me.   First the only one who would want to hack my account, would be me, because no one else would have a reason to do so, and I have no idea of how to do that.   Second, if I were do hack that website, then logically I would have hacked the bookstore to add those books there, but again I would not know how to do that, nor would I do such.   And thirdly, if that was hacked, they that means there is a data breach and we all need to be concerned that our data was compromised, which includes our credit card numbers.   I think it is safe to rule that out, but just in case, I advise others to monitor their banking in case their cards were compromised, and/or for identity theft.   Ergo we all should be concerned if that was the case.

I can tell you this, a long time ago I read there was a bug found in the WS backup option and they advised on another website to manually backup the main unlocks file, and since I periodically did that many times over the years, I would rename the backup like List1, list2, list3, or something like that, and save those in a separate folder on and external drive, which is that that website sugested to do.   Later I started using the date I backed those up as part of the file name, because you can not have the same name repeated in a folder, if you are saving several snapshots in time like I did.   Several times in the past I had my PC hijacked 3 times.   2 times I had ransom ware, and one time someone took control of my PC.  I have no idea what may have been stole from my PC when they took over control.  The PC was running overnight, and they locked out my keyboard access, and a reboot failed to restore my control, so that was another hard drive rebuild from scratch.   Each time I had to rebuild my entire hard drive by having to reinstall all the software and thinking I may have copied all those items in the backup to the folder where they came from.   I do not know if multiple copies of my own backups under a different name caused the confusion.  But was following the work around for the Backup bug that was reported.  I am thinking they said the restore kept freezing up WORDsearch and would crash, or something like that.  Later when I found that old email from Lifeway (posted above) after reading that again, I then realized I could simply log in and the unlocks would be restored from the WORDsearch website and there was no need to back those up any more, so after the second Ransom ware attack, the last time I rebuilt my PC after installing WORDsearch I simply let WS12 get those license from the WS website rather than restoring them manually as I did in the past.

In hindsight, I wonder if my duplicate unlocks files with different file names messed up that system.  They were still all my unlocks, but under different file names.   I now realize I followed bad advice on how to backup those books.   I never did hear if they fixed the bug in the backup option that required the manual way to save my unlocked books.  All I know is on my end WORDsearch worked fine when I restored those, so did not act like it messed it up on my PC.

Otherwise, I really do not know what could have happened, but I did not hack anything as suggested above.  To do any such thing would require more knowledge than I have, and would violate my values that I hold dear.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
The reason I dispute your 7,055 count is first of all I only have 4004 resources in WORDsearch.

I understand you're disputing this figure, but you're making my point.

What we have is the data we got from LifeWay. In that data, you have 7,055 "self reported" CROSS IDs. 6,298 of these are distinct from the 2,268 CROSS IDs you own in the Sales Database.

I think you're claiming you own 1,736 (4004-2268) of those 6,298. Based on the data we have, how are we supposed to know what you own and what's extra (invalid) data that's somehow ended up on your account? That's why we're asking for proof of purchase.

Ricky Daugherty:
If you say, "There are over 2,800 licenses on your account that are recorded in the Sales database" and my migration status lists only 2,706 resources being migrated, then I wonder did you round up?  2,800 - 2,706 = 94.

The number of Logos licenses you have from Wordsearch is 2,858. This includes 143 licenses included as part of "WS Basic +" (which was the free package unlocked based on your WS package: https://files.logoscdn.com/v1/files/45561287/content.pdf?signature=B7M_mhfLktiAHHtsu8A5fek3BDg). That leaves 2,715 licenses. The discrepancy (with 2,706) is the complicated unlocking that was performed for these commentaries: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/193950/1118077.aspx#1118077 

Ricky Daugherty:
And if my list before those being removed counted at 5,723, then how do you come up with 7,055 which is more than you previously reported you found before you removed the rest.

It's the count of records on your account in the LifeWay database.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
Such a suggestion that "Maybe your account was hacked." would concern me.

I didn't mean to suggest this was likely. I don't know how to explain the thousands of extra licenses on your account and was brainstorming possible explanations.

Ricky Daugherty:
And thirdly, if that was hacked, they that means there is a data breach and we all need to be concerned that our data was compromised, which includes our credit card numbers.   I think it is safe to rule that out, but just in case, I advise others to monitor their banking in case their cards were compromised, and/or for identity theft.

We have no evidence that there was ever any breach of the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store; moreover, no credit card information was transferred during the acquisition.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 12:25 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

And note that having a Logos license doesn't just provide access to the content: having a license for a resource enables dynamic pricing on any bundle containing that content. I don't believe that this was a feature of the Wordsearch Store, so that's an additional (and completely new) benefit of having the content in Logos, besides all the other advanced features of our platform.

That is where you are mistaken.   WORDsearch did in fact have dynamic pricing even though they did not call it that.   I argued above and to your Customer Service, that a lot of the libraries you removed, had many books that were used in the WORDsearch book store to reduce my purchase cost of other bundles, and upgrades which were recorded in my Online Bookstore History.   Several times I was looking at book listings for other libraries and would see a title I had that was not marked as owned by me but yet was in my library.   Each time I called WORDsearch Customer Service and several times emailed them and they added those books after they verified I had them, and then added those books to my Online Purchase History, which dropped my dynamic price to a point I could afford, and several upgrade libraries were purchased by me based on those dynamic Pricing additions of books not showing up when I viewed their Bookstore Listing.

But that points out the fact that WORDsearch did have some record keeping issues, and they admitted that to me in the emails I received, and can still produce.  Each time they said if I owned that book I should get credit for that that book in the dynamic pricing of upgrade libraries.   They also explained over they years, maybe during change of ownership (which did happen more than once before Logos acquired them), they changed a lot of book IDs that were used in older versions to newer IDs in the later bookstore.   They explained that was why my books did not show up as owned in the later library listings, because while the same title, many still had the older book IDs and was never upgraded to the later newer Book IDs.   I suspect that is what your people ran into as I saw repeated titles under different book IDs in your Migration Status Listing, which were later consolidated to a single Book ID merging those two identical titles into a single book book ID making it a single entry in your Migration Status.

Also about royalties I keep reading about above.   I thought when I initially purchased those resources, that the royalties were covered in the initial purchase.   Am I to understand that while those were covered under all future upgrades of WORDsearch engine from the initial purchase, that because WORDsearch was sold to Logos that under your software that the Royalties have to be paid again even though they were paid with my initial purchase.   While you did not say so, it sounds like you are suggesting under Logos ownership, that as you generously are granting us the same access to those same resources we purchased in WORDsearch that you also have to pay an additional royalty at your expense for each book you grant us on your platform?   If the initial purchase with WORDsearch covered the royalty, and if you do not have to pay a duplicate royalty after the initial purchase royalty, then why would you make it an issue, unless you have to pay a second royalty, which in such a case that again boils down to the money and sounds like Logos is not wanting to pay as much as they would have without removing those resources and this was an excuse to save money.   So does Logos have to pay a second royalty for each book we purchased?

And on a second note.  For the record no other vendor activated any of my books as you suggested might be the case.  All were activated via the WS software, not by any third party, which I understand used to be done with earlier Logos versions.  They were all activated either by CDs that Synchronized Ownership with the WS server, or purchases from the Online Store, or Step Books which when found were also added separately to the Store Purchases.    I agree with what someone earlier said, that we are being punished because a flaw in WORDsearch processing that did not add our CDs which were synchronized Ownership with their Server to their Online Bookstore the same way that our STEP books found were added to their Online Store.  Had WORDsearch recorded those CDs the same way they did the STEP books in their online store, this would NOT be an issue now, but because of their failure to properly process records, I am being punished because of their shortsightedness, because they could not foresee this transition happening, or this omission being an issue later.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
That is where you are mistaken.   WORDsearch did in fact have dynamic pricing.

I stand corrected; thanks for the update.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 12:58 PM

John Simpson:

Ricky Daugherty:
Some other Christian Websites which have forums, I have seen several hundred people complaining they lost several thousand books from their WS libraries

Could you point us to those forums? I'd be interested in seeing the comments. I have not had any issues with my large library, but I was careful to contact Wordsearch a few years ago when Bibleworks folded to make sure all my purchases were recorded. There were many books I had gotten from serial number unlock or CD that had not been automatically registered to my account.

Please let me clarify 2 missing words in my quote above,  what should have said:

"... I have seen several hundred posts of people complaining..."  My mistake.  I am getting real old and my mind does not work like it used to plus my eyes are bad.

There were so many comments I assumed it was more than 100 comments, but there was a lot of replies and counter replies from the same people.    I did not mean to say hundreds of people since I do not know how many, but there were a lot of posts from some of the same people with others comments about what they heard.

And a lot of them went to Accordance and leaving Logos.   Even I purchased on a payment plan their Accordance Crossover from WORDsearch, and will be paying for that another 10 months.  But if they did not post anything on Accordance, that means they must be happy with that platform.

I am not sure, but some of those may have been posted on some of those Conspiracy websites that have a lot of Christian Discussions there.  Really do not remember.   What I remember was my shock reading what some said that Logos said to them.  It is possible one of those Conspiracy Websites fueled the seed from all the facts I read to highly suspect motives from what I have suggested Logos is doing and why.   I read a lot of shocking facts and those disturbed me.

Also I never was notified by Logos what happened and had to read it there first.   After reading what others said Logos told them I had to contact Logos myself, and the first time received no reply.   The next message to Logos they said their files said they already resolved that, but believe they were thinking I was talking about my Logos 8 Full Features Set that they completely removed from my account while I was still on a payment plan for that.  My next message I had to clarify that I was talking about missing WORDsearch resources, and while they never answered my message about my Logos 8 Full Features Set, I acknowledged that had since been restored.  That is when Logos finally informed me that I had to provide proof of purchase for missing items, but they failed to inform me what and why they removed those resources.

In fact, I have never been contacted by Logos, Faithlife, or WORDsearch ever about the problems we are discussing here.   Logos silence only adds fuel to the fire for suspicion and speculation on my part.   Why the secrecy and why do they refuse to declare to us exactly what happened and why?  Piece meal bits and pieces here fall short of a proper notice of action and why.  Maybe after what others said Logos accused them of, they put on the brakes in order to prevent any future charges for slander and liable.   After what I read, I would have put a stop to my employees making such unfounded charges.   I will guess Logos was only guessing about some of what they suggested to those guys of, but their quotes made it sound like they were making some serious charges and accusations, like calling them pirates, which caused such users to go ballistic with Customer Service after making those charges.   They never said that to me and I would admit, that would get me pretty upset if they had.  I try to be a person of  Christian integrity and resent suggestions otherwise.   Some forget the Scriptures call for Two or Three witnesses to establish such things.  But I suspect they were told to stop making those accusations.  Plus the Bible says who the accuser of the brethren is.

That said, I will guess those may have been on a Conspiracy website that also took me to other sites to see more.

Again I am sorry I can not point you to those sources.  So maybe you need to look for Conspiracy websites that have a forum.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 1:25 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

...  That's why we're asking for proof of purchase. ...

I started spending endless hours looking for receipts that old.   I already have on record with WORDsearch that I had a house fire that took out two rooms with older CDs and may have had some receipts lost in that fire.  In fact a PDF of my email to WORDsearch and that WORDsearch reply I quoted above, was emailed to Logos who has that in their message queue with my receipts they are not responding to.

I have 4 blocked arteries, and the Surgeon refused to do the triple bypass because I could not afford to go into a nursing home for recovery, because I have bills to pay.  That really stressed me out spending endless hours tying to climb into the attic to see what I could find in about 80 boxes of stuff.    Unlike most folks, I always kept records, and I did find several receipts but not all, as I fear many were destroyed in that fire.   As soon as I realized your people were ignoring the receipts I provided, I gave up looking for more until you honor your promise to restore the ones I provided proof for.

The oldest receipt I found was dated 2009, and others still in my Logos account I found but you do not need those receipts dated back as far as 1996.  As I pointed out above, those older CDs were in STEP format and were added to the Online Bookstore because that was required to invoke the conversion from STEP format to the newer WORDsearch format.  However, the later CDs that were not STEP format, did not require that conversion, and ergo WORDsearch did not add those to the online store, because it was not required, and that is where you are punishing us with an unrealistic expectation, because of WORDsearch failure to record later CDs in their bookstore the same way they added the STEP books to the online books store.   In short your are punishing me for WORDsearch software designers oversight, that would have protected us and eliminated the questions you have today.  So because of their faulty programming you pass the punishment for their oversight on to us.  In other words, you are punishing us for WS poor record keeping process in their software.

It is totally unreasonable for you folks to expect average people to provide receipts that could go back as far as 20 years.  Many people do not keep receipts, and many would not keep receipts that far back.   But as I said, I keep all records, even though my storage system is not organized and hard to get to.  Except for what was destroyed in that fire, I should have the rest, but that is an unreasonable burden to place on anyone.

How many people do you know that would keep receipts of everything, especially going back 20 years?   That is an unrealistic and unreasonable hardship, and as I said before it has the appearance of someone taking advantage of that fact that they knew such was unrealistic, and with all the quotes of others saying Logos said they would resell them items they already purchases, the evidence is not convincing there was not an ulterior motive behind the push to request receipts, especially if WORDsearch already honored those purchases.  Tie that to the fact that after providing receipts, I still have not had restored some of those resources you have proof for.  The evidence does not appear to support Logos thus far.

While I respect you say you need those proofs, I have to question if there is another motive for such request when WORDsearch already honored those ownerships, which you yourself said they will still honor on their platform.

And supposing you do start to restore the CDs I provided proof for, what about those that may have been destroyed in that 2014 fire and will not be able to find later?   Sorry Charley!  That just is not right.  And all those who do not keep receipts for anything?  Sorry Charley!  That just is not right, fair or honest.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 3:49 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Ricky Daugherty:
The reason I dispute your 7,055 count is first of all I only have 4004 resources in WORDsearch.

I understand you're disputing this figure, but you're making my point.

What we have is the data we got from LifeWay. In that data, you have 7,055 "self reported" CROSS IDs. 6,298 of these are distinct from the 2,268 CROSS IDs you own in the Sales Database.

...

It's the count of records on your account in the LifeWay database.

I have been thinking about this and it is becoming clear, that just as you did not understand that WORDsearch did do dynamic pricing, I think you also fail to understand the data and how that was processed.

I am going to guess that others like this were older users that have updated their library to several different computer over the years.   I know for a fact from my own reinstalls, that every time I reinstalled on a new PC and restored my backups of my licenses, it would always say Synchronizing Ownership, but copying those files fresh to the WORDsearch website.  Over the years I have installed various versions of WS on many different PCs and each time I restored the licenses, you would see it was copying those licenses to the WORDsearch website even though they were already on file.   A smarter programmer would have reconciled those duplicates each time they were added and turn them into a single record, rather than leaving them repeated several times over, but guessing the programmer simply left them and skip dups when processing those.  The only way you can have record counts greater than those resources we find in our library is if those restores are copying duplicate records to the WORDsearch website every time a restore is done, again and again and again each time those restores are done.   I suspect the prior Owner of WORDsearch before Lifeway purchased them knew that and simply eliminated duplicates when processing what we have in our library, but failed to remove those duplicates from their database.   I am guessing you are looking at raw data that has all those duplicates of licenses we already had in our account, and if you remove all the duplicates, you should get counts closer to what I stated.   Just because you see the licenses for items we purchased repeatedly listed in your count, does not mean there is anything wrong, but only that the programmers of WORDsearch took those subsequent restores creating duplicate licenses and simply skipped the dups when loading our library for our use.  I can find no other logic to explain how you can come up with such an inflated count unless you are including Duplicate Synced Licenses.   The only way to know for sure is remove all the duplicates which is what I believe your Migration Status did where you provided much more realistic counts, so if you are counted duplicated syncs which could be repeated as many as 10 times for some items restored, then I am guessing should you reduce all duplicates to a single record for each you will get a much lower count.

So it sounds like you are taking actions and making conclusions about a process someone else created that you simply do not fully understand.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
I am guessing you are looking at raw data that has all those duplicates of licenses we already had in our account, and if you remove all the duplicates, you should get counts closer to what I stated.

Your guess is wrong.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
What we have is the data we got from LifeWay. In that data, you have 7,055 "self reported" CROSS IDs. 6,298 of these are distinct from the 2,268 CROSS IDs you own in the Sales Database.

I might not have made it clear that the numbers I reported earlier are all unique counts. Of course we de-duplicated the data.

Ricky Daugherty:
So it sounds like you are taking actions and making conclusions about a process someone else created that you simply do not fully understand.

You said it.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Can you zip up and email any *.ulk files you have in C:\ProgramData\WORDsearch\Global Data? Send them to testing@faithlife.com.

I don't know if we can read those data files yet, but they may provide an additional data point that can help us reconcile the list of books you see in Wordsearch 12 with the list of self-reported unlocks in LifeWay's database.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 8:03 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Ricky Daugherty:
I am guessing you are looking at raw data that has all those duplicates of licenses we already had in our account, and if you remove all the duplicates, you should get counts closer to what I stated.

Your guess is wrong.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
What we have is the data we got from LifeWay. In that data, you have 7,055 "self reported" CROSS IDs. 6,298 of these are distinct from the 2,268 CROSS IDs you own in the Sales Database.

I might not have made it clear that the numbers I reported earlier are all unique counts. Of course we de-duplicated the data.

Since as I said before, a lot of this stuff started out with OLD book IDs and WORDsearch told me later they started using newer Book IDs,   While you say this is unique data, any chance at one point WORDsearch finally updated their data base to add the equivalent newer IDs by adding new records without deleting the older ones?  That could make then unique while also being duplicates as equivalent book titles under separate book ids?

Bottom line is I have much fewer books in my library and if it is not skipping duplicates as you suggest being unique, and nothing extra shows up in my library, so it is either as you suggested data corruption or loaded with obsolete older book IDs that have since been replaced with the newer one like WORDsearch Customer Service told me about as the reason why some of my current books did not show up as purchased in the newer library sets with the same books when doing the dynamic pricing purchases mentioned above.   If it does not show up in my Library, then whatever extra is meaningless, or it is older IDs no longer recognized.

That is why it would have been helpful if WORDsearch had simply added those older CDs many of which still used the older IDs into the Store, so they could be recognized as collections rather than individual WORDsearch format books.  If they did that with the STEP books which they had to do so those could release download of the newer formats under the same titles, you would have thought it would have not taken much more to do that for those later CDs.  I know too late, but they are the one that made that complicated, not me.  But they had to do that for STEP books to get the conversion updates, too bad they did not do that with the rest.   They entered several CDs manually in the store as we discussed a few but not the entire collection.

Plus if as has been suggested, why would anyone hack that and put meaningless data in their database that does not open real books.  There has to be a reason for those extra records, unless cross reference IDs or corruption, because the net effect is zero increase on my part.

I mentioned above reading a post about a Backup and Restore bug.   Any chance I could have done a backup then later restore and the zip file got corrupted before the restore operation?  I never read when they fixed that or if it was fix, but assumed it was fixed in later versions.  All I can say is my library looks as it should, and I recently installed WS12 on a different PC and let it restore the licenses from the Website instead of backup, and it looks normal.  Plus those extra books did not show up in your Migration Status before you removed any unverified licenses, just like they do not show up in my WS12, so whatever it is that is unrecognizable data by both those ways to see real books.

So if I send you a zip of the unlocks I now have, it would have been recently downloaded from the WORDsearch server during the latest install (as Jim Johnsen ‐ WORDsearch Sales Representative in the email quote above said I could do), but after you got your data your citing.  Plus that data is backed up to the Cloud backup as your FAQs recommended.  So you should already have access to that, but if not I can resend it.  In other words I would be sending you data you already have access to in that latest Cloud Backup, which would be later than what you are looking at.

PS

Maybe I should also thank you for spending so much time trying to help even if this is not resolved yet.   You are doing more than other Logos Staff so far.  So thank you.

Also, you keep saying "self-reported unlocks" can you define that so I can understand what that means.   You have used several terms foreign to me like that and CROSS IDs, which as a user mean very little to me without definitions or explanations.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
So if I send you a zip of the unlocks I now have, it would have been recently downloaded from the WORDsearch server during the latest install (as Jim Johnsen ‐ WORDsearch Sales Representative in the email quote above said I could do), but after you got your data your citing.  Plus that data is backed up to the Cloud backup as your FAQs recommended.  So you should already have access to that, but if not I can resend it.  In other words I would be sending you data you already have access to in that latest Cloud Backup, which would be later than what you are looking at.

I do have access to the Cloud Backups and I see one file from 9/23 and another from 10/26. We'll take a look to see what information we can extract from them. (User license backups are not the primary data source we're working from, but they may be the missing piece in this puzzle.)

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2021 11:57 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Maybe the LifeWay data was corrupted. Maybe your account was hacked. Maybe someone found a way to crack Wordsearch's DRM then transferred their library to you. Maybe these were all completely legal purchases. I don't know. But we have reasons to be suspicious of this data, and until you (and other customers in similar situations) can provide proof of purchase, we are not treating these as legitimate licenses that we will automatically be transferring into Logos.

Still bothered by where license records that do not correspond to any books I have in my account came from.   Went to bed, and my mind was still wondering, then I remember something that happened maybe a couple years ago.   Been spending the last two hours searching some archived Forum Blogs from WORDsearch 11 and WORDsearch 12 looking for some posts by others that said they lost about half their library overnight, and I thought I had posted there also when I checked and lost mine.  Others said they called WORDsearch and it should be fixed within 24 hours, which it was.  Had I been able to find those posts, that would have given us an exact date but I can not find them.   Those threads were removed after Logos took over and all posts are there under Logos items now.  Those forums posted things like the Free Friday notices, and free offers by Rose Publishing for special WORDsearch bundles for friends of Rose Publishing, holiday specials, etc,  and people asking questions about how to get certain features to work, because they may have been too lazy to see the WORDsearch tutorials that cover those things.  Before those threads were removed, I had copied both to a PDF for each, but those posts must have been removed after WORDsearch restored our libraries.

If I could have narrowed the date down, you could have contacted WORDsearch and ask what happened and what they did to fix that.   But that may have been the source of corruption, or not.   Sorry I could not find the posts and get the date.   Think they deleted those posts before the thread was removed.  What was strange I could not find my reply, unless I did not reply to those.  It may have been in 2018 or 2019 but since I can not find those posts I can NOT be more exact on when.   But several people were reporting the next day when they went to WORDsearch a lot of libraries were gone, but not all of them.   So what ever data thing happened, it affected us all on our PCs as they connected to the WORDsearch website to verify our licenses, and was back to normal the next day.  It did not remove our books, only the access to them for about 24 hours.  So it sounds like when we ran WS12 and it connected with the server and a lot of licenses were missing, when it got to the main page, most that stuff was locked again, until the next day when it could verify those unlocks were restored.

So maybe WORDsearch can remember that incident since they received a lot of calls about that and it was fixed the next day.  It would not hurt to contact them and pick their brain and see what they remember and what they did to fix those. It might be related, or it may not be.

It might be the data got corrupt and they simply copied a backup list in with those corrupted records.   Logic says they should have replaced those files from a backup, but I have no idea how they worked there and how competent those who fixed the records were.  But they might be able to tell you more, since I am only guessing based on what I saw happen with me and what others reported there.

That may be no help, but I hope it does help.

Posts 70
John Simpson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2021 9:47 AM

Ricky Daugherty:
Been spending the last two hours searching some archived Forum Blogs from WORDsearch 11 and WORDsearch 12 looking for some posts by others that said they lost about half their library overnight, and I thought I had posted there also when I checked and lost mine.  Others said they called WORDsearch and it should be fixed within 24 hours, which it was.  Had I been able to find those posts, that would have given us an exact date but I can not find them.   Those threads were removed after Logos took over and all posts are there under Logos items now. 

What site are these blogs at? I was never able to find any Wordsearch discussions, but if you found the posts "under Logos items now" you must have the URL.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

I reviewed the unlock files in the Cloud Backup for your account from 9/23.

There were several hundred files with the name "estore_NNN.ulk". I wondered if these corresponded to Wordsearch Online Store orders, so I compared their contents to the CROSS IDs associated with the Product Codes for each Line Item in each Order. They had identical contents, so this indicates to me that these are unlock files for individual orders in the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store.

What I didn't expect to find was that the Customer ID on those orders was not your Customer ID.

In fact, there are more than 50 different Customer IDs stamped on the Orders corresponding to the Unlock Files in your Wordsearch 12 backup. Is it possible you transferred orders from other WS users to yourself? (I don't think you've mentioned this as a potential source of licenses in previous posts. I'm not even sure if it was something the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store supported.)

Here are some customer names and order IDs (redacted for privacy) to jog your memory:

Da*** Pe***: ***948, ***722, ***172, ***455, ***387

He*** Pu***: ***110, ***511, ***901, ***096, ***344

Jo*** Me***: ***311, ***396, ***462, ***685, ***499

Da*** Tr***: ***992, ***509, ***153, ***906, ***920

Sa*** Tu***: ***802, ***683, ***342, ***564, ***076

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Hi Ricky,

There's something else in the Cloud Backups I hope you can help explain.

I inspected all license backups that had been made through Wordsearch 12. Three of them, including yours, contained an unlock file named "RickyDaugherty.ulk". So two other users also had this file, with all of your unlocks. Do you know how that might have happened?

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2021 5:03 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

I reviewed the unlock files in the Cloud Backup for your account from 9/23.

There were several hundred files with the name "estore_NNN.ulk". I wondered if these corresponded to Wordsearch Online Store orders, so I compared their contents to the CROSS IDs associated with the Product Codes for each Line Item in each Order. They had identical contents, so this indicates to me that these are unlock files for individual orders in the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store.

What I didn't expect to find was that the Customer ID on those orders was not your Customer ID.

In fact, there are more than 50 different Customer IDs stamped on the Orders corresponding to the Unlock Files in your Wordsearch 12 backup. Is it possible you transferred orders from other WS users to yourself? (I don't think you've mentioned this as a potential source of licenses in previous posts. I'm not even sure if it was something the Wordsearch Ecommerce Store supported.)

Here are some customer names and order IDs (redacted for privacy) to jog your memory:

Da*** Pe***: ***948, ***722, ***172, ***455, ***387

He*** Pu***: ***110, ***511, ***901, ***096, ***344

Jo*** Me***: ***311, ***396, ***462, ***685, ***499

Da*** Tr***: ***992, ***509, ***153, ***906, ***920

Sa*** Tu***: ***802, ***683, ***342, ***564, ***076

I do not recognize the later stuff you talk about, but the earlier entries "estore_NNN.ulk" would have been for a lot of Bookstore entries back under the Bible Explorer 2 and Bible Explore 3.    I suspect a lot of those are repeated entries, because back then when going to the books store it did not mark items you already had so those would be repurchases.  If it did not use an account then their would be no way to know what I already purchased, else it would have showed what I already had and I would not have repeated bulk purchases not knowing what was new and what I already had.  Most those should be for the free books that BE offered, even if repeated, several times to include any new additions that were not easy to identify.   There were maybe 200 free books and some I did purchase, but the free books may not have had any user ID since they did no require any credit card and simply downloaded zipped books to the HD.  I do not remember how many I may have purchased later, and those may have had a different User ID tied to my Debit Card.  Other items would be acronyms for various CDs that were added over time.   As I said before, I used to back up the file with my name in an external drive to a single folder and did as the post reporting the bug, used to use titles like List1, List 2, List 3, then later I started using the date I backed those up which made it easier to know when I backed that up.  Think I stopped using that method with either WS11 or WS12 because assumed the back up bug had been fixed by then.  I do not remember which version that bug and work around was reported, but never read when it was fixed.

Plus I do not think they used Customer IDs back then under the older WORDsearch versions like Bible Explorer which did not require a credit card for such purchase and not sure if they did under WS 5, WS6, WS7, WS8, WS9, and WS10.   I believe it was WS 11 when we were required to sign in.  But by then my books were ordered under the current email and those stopped creating files that started with "estore_NNN.ulk".  Have not seen those type used for several years, and think they abandoned using those.  Anything outside that naming map would have came from CDs, except for the one with my Name.  I do not see any SP prefixes which would have been if I used my Mother's email, unless those are first and last names, which would be SD, but may have used my mothers email (Spencer1 around 2009-2010) with some earlier BE estore purchases, and some other earlier emails, but do not recognize any of those prefixes.  Of course assuming those are names, my last name does start with DA, but nothing jogs my memory.   So except for those older Bible Explorer estore entries which were not tied to an account and may have used new order ids for subsequent orders for the free books, and may have used a ID later when I had to purchase books from my debit card.  But I do not think an account was required to get the free books, and several times not knowing if there were new books added to the free books and no easy way to tell what I already had, I believe several times I simply selected all the free books to catch what ever I missed.   You need to contact the prior owners of WORDsearch back when they had Bible Explorer and confirm that an account was not required for free books, but might have been when you paid for books.

I do know before they reported that back up bug, I used backups to restore on later PCs, until I started backing up using the sequential backup names on an external drive in a single folder.

On the rebuild I started with a few CDs that were not lost in the fire like CBD.ulk which is the Christian Book Distributors Reference Library (that one your people did add to my bookstore after Getting that receipt)  and ThompChainBibleLibrary.ulk is another CD I installed (and WORDsearch said they added that to the Store earlier) and QVBS.ulk is the Quick Verse Bible Suite that was released under the owner ship of WORDsearch (that is one your people refused to add to my account even after I provided the receipt for that).  After installing those CDs I still had, I then installed WORDsearch 12 and signed in and that would have downloaded the file with my name from WORDsearch which was not there when I installed those CDs.  Plus I had other CDs lost in that fire but found the receipts and those were not added either.

Right now I am seeing 3 estore entries with strange extensions, that were not there when I reinstalled, from CDs then final WS12.  Don't know where they came from since I started on a fresh hard drive, but I do not know how all that works.  But I do not thinks those are unlocks, or what they are because I do not recognize those extensions.

I have had several others use my PCs when visiting over the years, like my Son who died in a car accident and my brother who died last year of cancer and a lot of nieces and nephews who I know used the internet, and computer games, but doubt if they ever used any of my bible software, but they may have, but I do not believe that software allowed multiple sign-ins so there should not have been other users as you said.  I really doubt they would have done anything they should not have on my PC, but was not monitoring every thing they did.

So from my stand point I should be the ONLY user tied to my account even if a lot of entries came before accounts were required.  However, if there was, I can not absolutely say my family did not do something I was no aware of, but I really doubt that is the case.   What I can say is I do NOT see books in my library I did not purchase or was provide free by BE and WORDsearch.   Even you said there were some 7000 licenses, but I only had 4004 books, so if other stuff somehow, some way got there by others, it is NOT in my library now.

I just remember something, I had mailed my laptop to my daughter in Iowa to use for a while until she could afford to get her own, and I found out later she had pawned that Laptop, but I made her get it back to me.   I do not believe a Pawn shop is allowed to use items that get redeemed, but again I am doubting anything happens with that.  That laptop died about 6 months later and I got another laptop after mailing that to her, and upgraded the new one soon after that was returned to me.

But I repeat I should be the Only one that used that software unless without my knowledge.

Update:

My son was named Patrick David Daugherty, but grew up with his mother 40 years ago and used her married name, as David Johnson.   The Da would not be part of David would it?   Because that might be a clue.

Posts 54
Ricky Daugherty | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2021 5:31 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Hi Ricky,

There's something else in the Cloud Backups I hope you can help explain.

I inspected all license backups that had been made through Wordsearch 12. Three of them, including yours, contained an unlock file named "RickyDaugherty.ulk". So two other users also had this file, with all of your unlocks. Do you know how that might have happened?

How could they get my files?   Above I mentioned my PC was hacked 3 time, but assumed they would be looking for identity stuff or account information to rob me, like the two ransomware tried to get me to pay them to unlock my PC.   How would anyone know I had those files to take them?  I would not believe a Christian would hack someone else's computer and steel Bible information.   Whoever would have would not be real Christian.  And I doubt my family would have taking those.  I seriously doubt they would know what to look for or how to use that stuff.   [redacted]  My point is only a Christian would want those, unless a Non Christian was selling those to others.  But then that questions any real Christian buying those if stole from others.

Could someone have hacked my Laptop when using WiFi at MacDonalds or the Public Library, because I went there frequently due to our very slow internet here?

But that raises other questions.  If someone else had the unlocks with my name, does that not mean the only way the can use that was if they were signed in as me?

[redacted]

If they used my Laptop at the Pawn shop, and especially if they thought she did not have the money to get it back, they may have been using it and wonder if that is where other garbage got added before I copied that data to the new laptop when the hard drive started loosing sectors.  That used to be my computer I used at Church as my Bible, and had a lot of different bible software packages as well as ebooks in ePub and mobi on it.  While she had it I purchased another laptop and after I got that back I restored a lot of other stuff from that to the replacement before it died.

So I think the only way anyone could use my stuff was if they were logged in to my WS11 on that laptop as me.  I think the CDs unlocks work on all computers but the one with my name should only work for me under my WS11 or WS12 sign-in.   So what good would that do for anyone else to have that?

[redacted]

So sounds like someone messed up my account, but how is speculation with only best guesses above, and did I not only loose both my kids, I have many other woes to deal with.  Like I said way at the top of this thread, I feel cursed, and feel like the devil is out to get me.  Can not walk on my left knee and insurance will not pay to get it fixed, I have 4 blocked arteries with my heart functioning at only 30%, which the surgeon refuses to do my triple bypass, simply because I can not afford to go into a nursing home for recovery and he refused to release me to my home because I have too many pets and know have to deal with this mess that is not my fault.   I know we are in the last days and many are suffering out there at this time, but Like Elijah I feel like I am alone even though I know I am not.

PS

If that laptop in the pawnshop was how they accessed my accounts, that may be how they was able to hack my PC more recently, because with my email and password saved in my browsers, and using my sign-in to my Microsoft account, they could have use a Microsoft back door to access my PC more recently.   I had assumed I went to a bad website my AVG Free did not catch, but if they had Microsoft access, maybe that is how they froze my PC locking me out with Microsoft remote access and bypass AVG catching that.  Still guessing the Ransom ware was a bad website, but taking control of my PC had to be something more complicated like remote access with my password to get permission.

Obviously it could be a coincidence others could have purchased the same CDs as those you noticed, but someone would have had to have access to mine, with the same name as mine and with the same unlocks as mine.   At first when you said the same name, other could have the same name as me as happened recently with my credit report that had another guys bad credit listed in my report, who had the same name as me, but with a birth date 5 years before I was born.  But to have the same unlocks, means they would have a copy from at least one of my PCs and that is not a coincidence and is something to be concerned about.

Is there anyway to check and see if any of my Logos account may have been copied also. But it would have had an older Logos version on that Laptop, because it was still Windows XP.  If some one else had access to that Laptop, I have to wonder how much other stuff was stole from my Laptop.  I have read about some steal credit card numbers and selling them, but never considered stuff like this being sold or that there might be a market for such.

Posts 8975
LogosEmployee

Ricky Daugherty:
QVBS.ulk is the Quick Verse Bible Suite that was released under the owner ship of WORDsearch (that is one your people refused to add to my account even after I provided the receipt for that).

We've never done unlocks for individual QV/WS CDs through the Logos licensing system before, which I think is why the CS team had trouble granting this unlock and referred you to Wordsearch for it.

However, I think I've unlocked it for you. It had 141 licenses on it. (Those may not all be new licenses, there might be some overlap with books you acquired through other purchases.) Please let me know if this unlock worked for you.

 

Ricky Daugherty:
Obviously it could be a coincidence others could have purchased the same CDs as those you noticed, but someone would have had to have access to mine, with the same name as mine and with the same unlocks as mine. ... But that raises other questions.  If someone else had the unlocks with my name, does that not mean the only way the can use that was if they were signed in as me?

They weren't signed in as you, as it was backed up under another account. But I may have jumped to conclusions earlier. While the file names were the same, the files weren't totally identical. Perhaps it was another customer who just shares your name.

Page 3 of 4 (65 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS