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Pater Noster | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 4 2020 9:44 AM

I have started playing around with the factbook, and I'll admit I don't know a lot about it yet.

But I am seeing that frequently the "Books from your library" has no results. I just tried a test, I typed the word "Trust" in Factbook. It shows 0 results in my library. But then I did a basic search of the word trust, and it returned 729 books in my library. The word 'Sin' shows 4 books in Factbook, but 2,691 books from my library.

I am guessing this is because not a lot of books are tagged for Factbook yet, is that right or is there another reason or problem?

Thanks!

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 10:27 AM

Pater Noster:
The word 'Sin' shows 4 books in Factbook

I have good-sized library and mine only shows 1. Clearly we expect more.

Hopefully someone can enlighten us as to why we are seeing these sparse results and if there is hope for improvement.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 5033
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:02 AM

Pater Noster:
I am guessing this is because not a lot of books are tagged for Factbook yet, is that right or is there another reason or problem?

"Books from your library" looks for books about that topic, not books with that word or topic somewhere inside.

Posts 353
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:30 AM

I have asked about Factbook before as I don't understand it either.

I search for one of the epistles or for gospel of John, etc.   and I find the results to be sparse and missing a lot of my books. It's like Factbook just doesn't use all the books in my library.

It's probably me.... and not understanding Factbook or maybe I don't have collections properly assigned or something.

For example.... I tried to find out when Galatians was written. In my Library I have many books about Galatians. Yet when I Factbook "epistle of Galatians" it comes up with maybe 2 results with dates of the book.  I know also that there is some controversy over the date of Galatians and I know in my Library I have at least 6 books that talks about the date of Galatians... yet Factbook is "narrow-minded" and only give me 2. And I don't know how to make Factbook more "broad-minded" when it comes to my Library.

xn = Christan  man=man

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:32 AM

xnman:
It's like Factbook just doesn't use all the books in my library.

That is true! Factbook is dependent upon tagging. Resources have to be tagged in order for Factbook to bring back results. 

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Posts 353
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:36 AM

So I must go  thru and tag my books in my library in order for Factbook to use the books? How do I do this?

xn = Christan  man=man

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:38 AM

xnman:
For example.... I tried to find out when Galatians was written. In my Library I have many books about Galatians. Yet when I Factbook "epistle of Galatians" it comes up with maybe 2 results with dates of the book.  I know also that there is some controversy over the date of Galatians and I know in my Library I have at least 6 books that talks about the date of Galatians... yet Factbook is "narrow-minded" and only give me 2. And I don't know how to make Factbook more "broad-minded" when it comes to my Library.

Greetings xnman,

I have just checked Factbook myself here is what it reported for me...

It might be interesting to check to see if any of these resources are in you library but not being mentioned?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Pater Noster:

But I am seeing that frequently the "Books from your library" has no results. I just tried a test, I typed the word "Trust" in Factbook. It shows 0 results in my library. But then I did a basic search of the word trust, and it returned 729 books in my library. The word 'Sin' shows 4 books in Factbook, but 2,691 books from my library.

As SineNomine indicated, the "Books from your library" section is not meant to show a list of books where the topic is mentioned. It's meant to show books that are primarily about that topic. If you want to find any of your books where the topic is mentioned, try using the Search link at the bottom of the See Also section.

Yes, there are probably still books that have not received the necessary metadata to indicate the topic, but even if all books were marked, it would not surprise me to find topics where there are no books primarily about that topic.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 12:10 PM

xnman:
So I must go  thru and tag my books in my library in order for Factbook to use the books?

No, Faithlife has to tag the books. That is part of the "value added" portion of "Logos Edition" resources. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 12:11 PM

Others can correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that "Factbook" is a tool for curated information. It does not replace other types of searches. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 12:43 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
As SineNomine indicated, the "Books from your library" section is not meant to show a list of books where the topic is mentioned. It's meant to show books that are primarily about that topic. If you want to find any of your books where the topic is mentioned, try using the Search link at the bottom of the See Also section.

That may be true, but if I do a Subject:sin search of my Library (and filter out my American History Collection hits, I find a number of resources that should be included. You can probably see them in this search report:

Of these, only Breaking Free From Habitual Sin, which is a video, is listed in Factbook for me. I'd expect #2, 4, 7, 9, 15, and 22 to show up at the least. In fact some of these latter ones are more relevant to the general topic of sin than the one that is cited.

So, to your point on tagging, I agree. think Factbook is relying on incomplete data. I hope this can be worked on.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 5033
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 1:00 PM

Mark Smith:

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
As SineNomine indicated, the "Books from your library" section is not meant to show a list of books where the topic is mentioned. It's meant to show books that are primarily about that topic. If you want to find any of your books where the topic is mentioned, try using the Search link at the bottom of the See Also section.

That may be true, but if I do a Subject:sin search of my Library (and filter out my American History Collection hits, I find a number of resources that should be included.

More than half of my results for subject:sin disappeared when I searched subject:"sin". (The ones remaining have the subject "sin--Christianity" rather than, e.g., "Deadly sins".) Is this affecting your results as well?

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Mark Smith:
Factbook is relying on incomplete data. I hope this can be worked on.

Yes, it is being worked on.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 1:31 PM

SineNomine:
More than half of my results for subject:sin disappeared when I searched subject:"sin". (The ones remaining have the subject "sin--Christianity" rather than, e.g., "Deadly sins".) Is this affecting your results as well?

It could be, but I think that is missing the point. The point is that I have a number of other resources that are clearly on the subject that are not picked up in Factbook. It seems to be a tagging issue or the algorithm FL uses to get the list of results needs tweaking. I have more resources (and some more germane to the Factbook entry) and I'd expect to see at least some of them.

This is just one example. The OP (Pater Noster) had another which I haven't checked. I'm sure many more could be found.

If FL wants Factbook to be the starting point for studies, the section on resources in my Library needs to give better results. Otherwise let Factbook give us a link to a search panel that will give me better results from my Library. What I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways, wanting to be a starting place and then making excuses when that isn't really a good idea.

I know Factbook is under development. This is an area I'd suggest needs more development. If we know that is in the works, that will be fine.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 1:32 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Mark Smith:
Factbook is relying on incomplete data. I hope this can be worked on.

Yes, it is being worked on.

Thanks. That is the sort of information I hoped we'd get.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith:
let Factbook give us a link to a search panel that will give me better results from my Library

This is available in the See Also section.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 3:05 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Mark Smith:
let Factbook give us a link to a search panel that will give me better results from my Library

This is available in the See Also section.

Thanks. As you can see in my Library that search has just a few too many hits to be unusable:

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Mark Smith:
As you can see in my Library that search has just a few too many hits to be unusable:

I recommend hiding some books. Wink

The search that is generated includes some plain text terms. You can tighten up the results a little by eliminating those and just keeping the reference terms. You could consider also removing the headword term(s).

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 4:21 PM

Mark Smith:

SineNomine:
More than half of my results for subject:sin disappeared when I searched subject:"sin". (The ones remaining have the subject "sin--Christianity" rather than, e.g., "Deadly sins".) Is this affecting your results as well?

It could be, but I think that is missing the point. The point is that I have a number of other resources that are clearly on the subject that are not picked up in Factbook. It seems to be a tagging issue or the algorithm FL uses to get the list of results needs tweaking. I have more resources (and some more germane to the Factbook entry) and I'd expect to see at least some of them.

"Resources on the subject" is indeed the key point for the Books from Your Library section of Factbook. The Subject column in the Library panel is the way we've done this previously: but that information is only used in Library (and has some nuances for filtering, as SineNomine points out). 

We're starting to annotate books in an additional way, using the same identifiers we use for Factbook pages: that's what powers the Books from Your Library section of Factbook. The three books that show up for me on the Factbook page for Sin are there because we've annotated them as being "about" this subject as a whole. That newer style of annotating is still on-going, so you should expect to see more books populating this section in the future. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2020 8:26 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
The search that is generated includes some plain text terms. You can tighten up the results a little by eliminating those and just keeping the reference terms. You could consider also removing the headword term(s).

I could. But when I said it would be nice to have a search I was thinking of one I didn't have to work on. How many people will know what to do to cut down the 2.5 million hits to a manageable number?

Here is the search that Factbook generates: 

<Culture Sin>, <PreachingTheme Sin>, <Topic Sin>, {Section <Culture Sin>}, {Section <PreachingTheme Sin>}, {Section <Topic Sin>}, {Milestone <Culture Sin>}, {Milestone <PreachingTheme Sin>}, {Milestone <Topic Sin>}, {Headword Depravity}, {Headword Iniquity}, {Headword Sin}, {Headword Sin unto Death}, {Headword Transgression}, {Headword Trespass}, {Headword Worldliness}, Depravity, Iniquity, Sin, "Sin unto Death", Transgression, Trespass, Worldliness

If I do a Library Subject search of just the simple words above: Subject:(Depravity, Iniquity, Sin, "Sin unto Death", Transgression, Trespass, Worldliness) I get a much more manageable 79 results. If I remove the Early American History results, I am down to 22 results. By putting quotes around the word sin ("sin"), I eliminate the results that are about singleness, single, and Sinai and I get 15 results, many of which would be good to see in Factbook, and none of which would I be unhappy to see.

(BTW: Subject:"Sin" gets me the very same results. YMMV)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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