SESB morphological search for words without pronominal suffixes

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Andrew Wergeland | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 21 2021 12:34 AM

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a search (morph query?) for words (verbs in perfect, f.ex.) that do not have a pronominal suffix?

In BibleWorks, I would use the string *@v?p*+Sx.  This is somewhat similar to the SESBMorphHeb scheme: <SESBMorphHeb ~ v?p?????+...>.  I just wish I could put an x after the + to indicate neither 1, 2, nor 3.  But I guess nothing is tagged with an x after +. 

I've tried looking at how words with no pronominal suffix are coded, but they just seem to stop before the +-sign. Is there a way to indicate the end of the code string?

Thanks,

Andrew

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Andrew Wergeland | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2021 12:48 AM

Sorry. I just figured it out.  If I type '-' (minus or hyphen) after the '+S', forms with pronominal suffixes seem to be excluded.

Where was I supposed to learn this? Where's the documentation on the SESB morphological tagging scheme?

Andrew

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2021 7:46 PM

andrew wergeland:
I just wish I could put an x after the + to indicate neither 1, 2, nor 3.  But I guess nothing is tagged with an x after +.

Use the SESB Morph drop-down to do the coding. Normally you first type @ to get it in Morph Search, but you can get it from the <SESBMorphHeb ~ VeI2M???+S[^U]??> coding if you (mouse) click just after the closing angle bracket.

The suffix S parameters begin with Person and I selected First,Second and Third to get the [^U] coding, meaning all but Unmarked. That wasn't what you wanted, but it indicates how to select for inclusion. However, you can't get rid of the +S by not selecting Person, Gender, Number!

andrew wergeland:

Sorry. I just figured it out.  If I type '-' (minus or hyphen) after the '+S', forms with pronominal suffixes seem to be excluded.

Where was I supposed to learn this? Where's the documentation on the SESB morphological tagging scheme?

Morph Code documentation is found in the wiki https://wiki.logos.com/Morphology_Codes  but it doesn't include SESB! We know we cannot omit the suffix codes via the Morph Search drop-down, but it is easy to exclude the codes from the Search term i.e. use <SESBMorphHeb ~ V???????>, or <SESBMorphHeb ~ VeI2M???> for my example.

Dave
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Andrew Wergeland | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 4:14 AM

Thanks for the reply, Dave.  I may have misunderstood you, but I was trying to search for words without a pronominal suffix.  It didn't seem to help to not choose suffix codes.  The simplest way I found to do this was to type a minus sign after the +S.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 5:26 AM

It is simple to test:

<SESBMorphHeb ~ VbI2M???> produces the same result as <SESBMorphHeb ~ VbI2M???+S->, which are words without a pronominal suffix. You aren't expected to know about S-, but it is easy to remove the S codes from the term (thus excluding suffixes).

Dave
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Andrew Wergeland | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 6:23 AM

Maybe we have different settings on, but when I search for @v?p???, I get forms in perfect with (and without) pronominal suffixes.  The search @v?p??? does not, in other words, produce the same result as @v?p*+S-, which only gives me forms in perfect without pronominal suffixes.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 1:43 PM

The behaviour of @V?P??? or @V?P* with respect to  @V?P*+S-  is anomalous, and I can only get it to work in Bible Search. They search both Hebrew and Aramaic and @V?P??? gives the same result as <SESBMorphAram ~ V?P???+S???> OR <SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P???+S???>.

I was referring only to full format Hebrew (or Aramaic) searches, where:

<SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P?????> or <SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P???>  produces the same results (18993) as 

<SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P?????+S-> or <SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P???+S-> (18993). Which is less than the 20726 results from <SESBMorphHeb ~ V?P?????+S???>.

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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