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Posts 40
Richard Teschendorf | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 12 2010 3:32 AM

I have been reading The Bible Knowledge Commentary on my iPad for some time now and last night I got a message saying there was an error reading the book (I had previously downloaded it and it was in my "Recent" list) and I wasn't authorized for it.  Now I see it's not on the official list of ebooks on the iPhone/iPad.  What happened to it?

Sorry if this was covered in a previous thread, but I couldn't find it with a search of the forums.

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2010 9:11 AM

Yep, same here... this is one particular commentary that I read every single day and I actually bought the base package of Logos 4 specifically because it had the BKC available on the iPad?

Hope it hasn't been removed for good, anyone over there have any information about why this is no longer in the mobile library and when it might be put back on there.  There really isn't another commentary that is a whole bible commentary equivalent to this one that is also on the base package and available for the iPad/iPhone?

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2010 9:35 AM

Just received this word:

"The BKC is no longer available in iPhone, iPod or iPad format per the request of the publisher."

That REALLY stinks... I pretty much purchased the base package just so I could read this particular commentary on my iPad for a specific study application (other reasons too of course, this just happen to be very high on my list).

Anyone have an equivalent commentary they like that is also available on the iPad?  The copyright / publishers bunk that runs through all digital media is enough to make one sick (IMO).

Posts 76
Greg M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 4:50 AM

What about fair use?  We purchased these books but because of greed Logos and these so called Christian publishers are preventing us from using our books on the different devices that we have.

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of Logos.  I finally bought the first Mac version just a month or so before they came out with 4.  I bought it because they promised to continue to develop it and bring it up to speed with the windows version, which I had.  Then they drop support for it to make us buy 4.  I bought 4 because they said that we'd have access to our books on the iphone but again after giving them my money they don't follow through on their promise.  BTW, I'm still not using 4 on my MBP because it's bloated, slow and all it does is hog resources because it's constantly indexing.

Windows users get free engine updates for life but those who choose the better platform get taken for life.

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 5:49 AM

Greg M:

BTW, I'm still not using 4 on my MBP because it's bloated, slow and all it does is hog resources because it's constantly indexing.

hmmm, yeah I think you may have a problem there Greg.  You know the mac version is up to beta 6?

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 5:56 AM

Greg M:

What about fair use?  We purchased these books but because of greed Logos and these so called Christian publishers are preventing us from using our books on the different devices that we have.

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of Logos.  I finally bought the first Mac version just a month or so before they came out with 4.  I bought it because they promised to continue to develop it and bring it up to speed with the windows version, which I had.  Then they drop support for it to make us buy 4.  I bought 4 because they said that we'd have access to our books on the iphone but again after giving them my money they don't follow through on their promise.  BTW, I'm still not using 4 on my MBP because it's bloated, slow and all it does is hog resources because it's constantly indexing.

Windows users get free engine updates for life but those who choose the better platform get taken for life.

I think this is more than a little uncalled for.  If you are frustrated, that is fine...call Customer Support and see if they can resolve your complaints/issues.  Venting and making false accusations (greed; "so called Christian publishers"; dropping Mac support [?!]; etc) on a public board helps nobody and is technically libel.

Posts 2
Chris Dixon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 7:52 AM

This is very upsetting to me too.  I did not buy Logos until the iPad came out, and have been using it for 75% of my Bible study.  I find it very fatiguing to do Bible study at a computer, and that is why I held off so long on purchasing online study software.  Although the mobile version could use some more features, it has been worked very well for me.  This is a major blow though, as the BKC is my "go to" commentary.  It's almost always the first one I look at for a baseline when studying a passage.  Taking this away from the mobile version is beyond disappointing.  Is this a question of licensing?  If so, Logos really needs to put some effort into getting this back.  It's one thing to lose a fringe resource, but this one is key.

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 9:40 AM

My issue was really that this particular resource is a basic staple in bible study, and while there are some 10,000 or however many resources available for the iPad-iPhone, the BKC was the only one I used on a daily basis consistently, and if it wasn't listed in the mobile resources when I purchased the base package I may have waited a little longer to buy it (being on a Mac... though Logos has come a long way with the Mac platform, it gets better every week).

I will say, Logos is hardly to blame here (from what I can tell).  In most cases it seems that the publishers are the ones that hold the strings and make the final say yes or no, and apparently they can do that at any point along the way.

I contacted David C Cook Publishers and through many different conversations, no one could actually find out anything one way or the other, and it took quite a while before they even understood what I was talking about.  Someone over at DCC knows what's going on, but it must reside pretty high up.  I have also contacted customer service for Logos and most don't seem to understand or know anything either.  I finally got my answer from a twitter response from Logos that it was pulled by request of the publisher.

This is not something unique to Logos, or to DCC for that matter.  Look at what happened with the Kindle when Amazon seemingly arbitrarily decided to remove 1984 from everyone's Kindle.  It was publisher that made Amazon pull the book, not Amazon.  Look at the Beatles with iTunes, etc etc.

I presume someone at DCC required Logos to pull the BKC from the mobile platform.  The "greed" comment from the earlier post may have been uncalled for but you can bet money has something to do with it down the line somewhere.  In the world of digital media, we are all at the whim of the publishing companies, even those companies who provide them to us, like Logos, Amazon's Kindle, and Apple's iBooks seem to be at the mercy of the publishing companies?

What I don't care for is being the end user, we are caught in the middle.  We purchase a product with certain expectations and now, with digital media, we have to be ready for those expectations to be fluid and constantly changing.

When I talked to DCC, no one could ever find out why it was pulled.  They also told me they did not make the BKC available for the Kindle or iBooks on purpose, so something tells me if they didn't want it for either of those platforms, they changed their mind about the Logos version. 

I can't imagine the number of publishers that Logos has to deal with when looking at the number of resources they have available, it must be quite a job, and I am sure they do the best they can. Just my $.02.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 10:02 AM

Greg M:
What about fair use?  We purchased these books but because of greed Logos and these so called Christian publishers are preventing us from using our books on the different devices that we have.

Logos has been working feverishly to provide as much free content as possible from our "desktop" libraries. If a publisher (for greed or possibly honorable reasons) reqests the title not be accessed that way, it is not Logos' prerogative to ignore them. It may just be a misunderstanding on the part of the publisher or it could be a legally binding requirement the publisher has to the authors of the commentaries.

Yes, it is an unhappy development. But I would not blame Logos for this one. (Just pray all the other publishers don't follow suit.)

Incidentally, I have access to all 3600+ resources in my library when I carry around my netbook. But I am not as mobile as everyone else.

Chris Dixon:

This is very upsetting to me too.  I did not buy Logos until the iPad came out, and have been using it for 75% of my Bible study.  I find it very fatiguing to do Bible study at a computer, and that is why I held off so long on purchasing online study software.  Although the mobile version could use some more features, it has been worked very well for me.  This is a major blow though, as the BKC is my "go to" commentary.  It's almost always the first one I look at for a baseline when studying a passage.  Taking this away from the mobile version is beyond disappointing.  Is this a question of licensing?  If so, Logos really needs to put some effort into getting this back.  It's one thing to lose a fringe resource, but this one is key.

That would be extremely "beyond disappointing" for me too, had I based my purchases on the information you were working with. I hope Logos does tighten up the license agreements to prevent a mass exodus from the online apps.    Yes, this is bad news.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 652
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 6:07 PM

Greg M:
I bought 4 because they said that we'd have access to our books on the iphone but again after giving them my money they don't follow through on their promise.

Logos makes it very clear that there is no guarantee that all your books will be able to be used with an iPad and/or an iPhone. Logos fervently tries to get the publishers to allow their books to be used on secondary devices, but it is outside of Logos' control to force a publisher to do this. It does seem unfair that Logos siad the BKC would be available and then it was taken down, but I think that is beyond Logos' control. The Holman Bible Handbook is the closest short, one-volume commentary I can find on my iPhone.

The Mac and PC engines are free to download and an upgrade to Logos 4 Mac or Logos 4 from earlier editions is free. The crossgrade is the one that costs a little, but more resources are included.

You might want to do a little more investigating before lambasting Logos.

 

 

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 14 2010 6:41 PM

Jeremy:
You might want to do a little more investigating before lambasting Logos.

I agree, almost always, this seems to be an issue with the publishing companies not allowing their products on that particular platform.

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 7:26 AM

Scott Fillmer:
I presume someone at DCC required Logos to pull the BKC from the mobile platform.  The "greed" comment from the earlier post may have been uncalled for but you can bet money has something to do with it down the line somewhere.

I was defending Logos more than DCC (who I know next to nothing about) because the "greed" comment lumped the two together.  It was his attack on Logos that I thought was uncalled for.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 11:19 AM

Greg M:

What about fair use?  We purchased these books but because of greed Logos and these so called Christian publishers are preventing us from using our books on the different devices that we have.

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of Logos.  I finally bought the first Mac version just a month or so before they came out with 4.  I bought it because they promised to continue to develop it and bring it up to speed with the windows version, which I had.  Then they drop support for it to make us buy 4.  I bought 4 because they said that we'd have access to our books on the iphone but again after giving them my money they don't follow through on their promise.  BTW, I'm still not using 4 on my MBP because it's bloated, slow and all it does is hog resources because it's constantly indexing.

Windows users get free engine updates for life but those who choose the better platform get taken for life.

Greg, I think you just attack Logos with unnecessary accusations that has nothing to do with this thread. Sad

Bohuslav

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 11:25 AM

Scott Fillmer:
Anyone have an equivalent commentary they like that is also available on the iPad?

Scott, I have the following one-volume commentary on my iPhone:

Paschall, F. H., & Hobbs, H. H. (1972). The teacher's Bible commentary: A concise, thorough interpretation of the entire Bible designed especially for Sunday School teachers. Nashville: Broadman and Holman Publishers.

I don't use it (I use New Bible Commentary as my one-volume main commentary) so I am not able to say how good it is. May be somebody else can comment on that.

Bohuslav

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 11:45 AM

Thanks, yes, that is an alternative, I have that one too... didn't care for it quite as much as the BKC, but it is still available.  The other option was the 2 volume "Summary of the Old [and New] Testament" which actually has some very good info but it is VERY brief.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 12:05 PM

Scott Fillmer:

Thanks, yes, that is an alternative, I have that one too... didn't care for it quite as much as the BKC, but it is still available.  The other option was the 2 volume "Summary of the Old [and New] Testament" which actually has some very good info but it is VERY brief.

What about buying the New International Bible Commentary of F.F. Bruce? Smile

It is available on the iPhone/iPad platform.

 

Bohuslav

Posts 86
Scott Fillmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 12:33 PM

Interesting... that is a great commentary (i have it in physical book form) but it doesn't seem to be on my iPhone-iPad list, must not be included in the base package that I have I guess.  If it was that would be a great alternative for sure.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 12:38 PM

Scott Fillmer:

Interesting... that is a great commentary (i have it in physical book form) but it doesn't seem to be on my iPhone-iPad list, must not be included in the base package that I have I guess.  If it was that would be a great alternative for sure.

They say on the product page of NIBC that it is available in iPhone/iPad. I don't have it but it looks as a very good alternative IMHO.

EDIT: No, it is not part of any base package. I have a Platinum and don't have it. I wish I would.

Bohuslav

Posts 5495
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 1:53 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

Scott Fillmer:

Interesting... that is a great commentary (i have it in physical book form) but it doesn't seem to be on my iPhone-iPad list, must not be included in the base package that I have I guess.  If it was that would be a great alternative for sure.

They say on the product page of NIBC that it is available in iPhone/iPad. I don't have it but it looks as a very good alternative IMHO.

EDIT: No, it is not part of any base package. I have a Platinum and don't have it. I wish I would.

No its not part of any base package.  As a Zondervan resource it has only been recently added to the Logos stable.  If I had an iPhone /  iPad I would go for NIBC as my one volume commentary also.

Posts 32
Richard Stimson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 15 2010 4:42 PM

I would like to add my voice to the feeling of frustration.  It is not with Logos, in fact I have found them more than fair.  It is more the whole problem of digital books.  I would think publishers would love digital books.  They do not have the whole process of printing books, storing books, etc.  What a saving (part of which should come to the end user - us).

It bugs me that there is not a way (or if there is one I do not know how to do it) to loan ebooks to a friend.  But it really frustrates me that I have to keep re-buying the same books just because I change my bookshelves.  I have bought BKC for both Logos and Olivetree (back when I had a Palm and before Logos 4 - in fact Logos 4 is one reason I am now with an iPad).  But now with BKC I can not even use it within the same system (Logos on the PC and iPad). 

I understand publishers have to protect themselves, but behavior like this is why some do not feel wrong to not follow all of the publisher rules.  I may be wrong, but I do think it is about money.

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