Logos, is it too late to get a refund?

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 7:06 PM

Andrew McKenzie:
Research also apparently found that Printing wasn't needed...

 . . . and how nice it was added back in after many of us expressed our deep desire to have that capability.  Smile

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 7:21 PM

Dan DeVilder:

Andrew McKenzie:
Research also apparently found that Printing wasn't needed...

 . . . and how nice it was added back in after many of us expressed our deep desire to have that capability.  Smile

Its a shame they don't do that with other issues....

Posts 103
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 12:55 AM

Andrew McKenzie:

Bob Pritchett:
But our research indicated a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user,

Research also apparently found that Printing wasn't needed...

What statistics don't tell us is the why of their existence... why a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user.... is it because they were simply not using Note files in Libronix 1-3 because the functionality provided did not meet their needs and so they turned to other options ?  Or is there some other reason ?

Why to I get the feeling we have endowed statistics with "god" like status as if they can solve all our problems.

FACT: Statistics are just a tool for soliciting information. They will not provide intelligent answers, they are non-sentient. So if statistics indicate few people are printing or writing notes in Logos 3/4 then we have possibly flagged something noteworthy but they "why" and "therefore" questions still need to be asked and answered before we can make any solid conclusions from the data gathered.

Bob Pritchett:
But our research indicated a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user,
So WHAT! The real question that begs to be asked is "why" why are so few notes being taken when there seems to be so much discussion about notes? In my case with Logos 3 for Mac I had hundreds of notes but due to a set of unfortunate circumstances lost the lot before I could import them into Logos 4 for Mac.

;-) Studies have shown and statistics have proven the human species suffers a 100% mortality rate. The real question is "why".

Posts 109
Jarred Edgecombe | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:15 AM

Even with all these little issues that heave been mentioned in this thread, you have to admit, LOGOS ROCKS! Thanks Bob and all your team for giving me software that is so useful.

Jarred

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:45 AM

SimonM:

Andrew McKenzie:

Bob Pritchett:
But our research indicated a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user,

Research also apparently found that Printing wasn't needed...

What statistics don't tell us is the why of their existence... why a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user.... is it because they were simply not using Note files in Libronix 1-3 because the functionality provided did not meet their needs and so they turned to other options ?  Or is there some other reason ?

Why to I get the feeling we have endowed statistics with "god" like status as if they can solve all our problems.

FACT: Statistics are just a tool for soliciting information. They will not provide intelligent answers, they are non-sentient. So if statistics indicate few people are printing or writing notes in Logos 3/4 then we have possibly flagged something noteworthy but they "why" and "therefore" questions still need to be asked and answered before we can make any solid conclusions from the data gathered.

Bob Pritchett:
But our research indicated a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user,
So WHAT! The real question that begs to be asked is "why" why are so few notes being taken when there seems to be so much discussion about notes? In my case with Logos 3 for Mac I had hundreds of notes but due to a set of unfortunate circumstances lost the lot before I could import them into Logos 4 for Mac.

;-) Studies have shown and statistics have proven the human species suffers a 100% mortality rate. The real question is "why".

You have both made valid counter points to Bob's stats.  Valid, in the sense of offering a reasonable counterpoint.  But seriously, do we know for sure that they have not done focus groups, or not asked the "why" questions?  Do we know what percentage of people are clamoring for change in some of these specified areas?  Do we have  an accurate handle on how they have to budget their resources (people, technology etc) vis a vis the multiple layers of need for their company?

I see no problem with constantly bringing up needs that are not met, whether it be on the forums or uservoice.  I see no problem with making sure Logos is hearing correctly.  If Logos treats us badly, then they should be confronted with that.

They have not treated us badly.  They may not have moved as fast in areas as we like at times.  But, fact is, we have no clue about the inner machinations and corporate needs of Logos.  We only see how they are not meeting what WE want.  And that frustration within us sometimes translates in to condescension, short temperedness, sarcasm--how is that of Christ?  It's not.  Keep the pressure on, but do it with grace and patience.

Sometimes these threads take on an "us vs. them" or even class warfare (little guy vs. uncaring corporate biggie).  Now the same is true for Logos: they must take care to listen to us--if for no other reason than their business will suffer if they are not addressing the (multifaceted myriad of) needs of their market.  If Bob becomes belligerent in his response, or Dan tell us "too bad, so sad, you have to cancel pre-pubs, not my problem" then we also (with patience and grace) need to respond to them.  Because in the end (whether or not you categorize Logos as a Christian company), these are our fellow brothers, and that is how we are called to deal with each other.  It matters not if you have a Logos symbol, an MVP star, or a blank space--we all carry the Cross.

Please, let's temper our posts and responses.  Take special care with this medium, too.  I think at times it is possible for intimate friends to have knock down drag out fights, because we have a foundation of trust that transcends those things.  Despite being in Christ, few of us are really friends, and so extra special care must be taken in our communication---so that we don't defame or injure one-another unnecessarily.

If any of you have ever done church work, you know how different factions in the congregation can have completely different perspectives on the same thing (message, worship, carpet color, announcement, youth sunday, whatever).  And you know how passionately people feel about that ONE thing.  You also know how sometimes those parties are not treated with respect because we get tired of hearing the "same ol' same ol'".  If care is not taken, division and dismissal (of the other person) sets in.  How different if at first we try to see their view point, and constantly work at explaining ours with aplomb and great patience.

Peace, brothers.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1141
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:46 AM

Andrew McKenzie:
What statistics don't tell us is the why of their existence... why a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user.... is it because they were simply not using Note files in Libronix 1-3 because the functionality provided did not meet their needs and so they turned to other options ?

You hit the nail on the head for my reasons, Andrew.

 

Anonymous | | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:49 AM

> is it because they were simply not using Note files in Libronix 1-3 because the functionality provided
> did not meet their needs and so they turned to other options ? 

That's why I don't use them.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:50 AM

Dan DeVilder:

You have both made valid counter points to Bob's stats.  Valid, in the sense of offering a reasonable counterpoint.  But seriously, do we know for sure that they have not done focus groups, or not asked the "why" questions?  Do we know what percentage of people are clamoring for change in some of these specified areas?  Do we have  an accurate handle on how they have to budget their resources (people, technology etc) vis a vis the multiple layers of need for their company?

I see no problem with constantly bringing up needs that are not met, whether it be on the forums or uservoice.  I see no problem with making sure Logos is hearing correctly.  If Logos treats us badly, then they should be confronted with that.

They have not treated us badly.  They may not have moved as fast in areas as we like at times.  But, fact is, we have no clue about the inner machinations and corporate needs of Logos.  We only see how they are not meeting what WE want.  And that frustration within us sometimes translates in to condescension, short temperedness, sarcasm--how is that of Christ?  It's not.  Keep the pressure on, but do it with grace and patience.

Sometimes these threads take on an "us vs. them" or even class warfare (little guy vs. uncaring corporate biggie).  Now the same is true for Logos: they must take care to listen to us--if for no other reason than their business will suffer if they are not addressing the (multifaceted myriad of) needs of their market.  If Bob becomes belligerent in his response, or Dan tell us "too bad, so sad, you have to cancel pre-pubs, not my problem" then we also (with patience and grace) need to respond to them.  Because in the end (whether or not you categorize Logos as a Christian company), these are our fellow brothers, and that is how we are called to deal with each other.  It matters not if you have a Logos symbol, an MVP star, or a blank space--we all carry the Cross.

Please, let's temper our posts and responses.  Take special care with this medium, too.  I think at times it is possible for intimate friends to have knock down drag out fights, because we have a foundation of trust that transcends those things.  Despite being in Christ, few of us are really friends, and so extra special care must be taken in our communication---so that we don't defame or injure one-another unnecessarily.

If any of you have ever done church work, you know how different factions in the congregation can have completely different perspectives on the same thing (message, worship, carpet color, announcement, youth sunday, whatever).  And you know how passionately people feel about that ONE thing.  You also know how sometimes those parties are not treated with respect because we get tired of hearing the "same ol' same ol'".  If care is not taken, division and dismissal (of the other person) sets in.  How different if at first we try to see their view point, and constantly work at explaining ours with aplomb and great patience.

Peace, brothers.

 

Well said Dan.

I'm all for suggestions...heck..I'd like my list of wants worked on first!...but sometimes I cringe at the wording used and directed at Logos...words I'm willing to be would never be used in a face to face meeting with Bob.

 

 

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 8:04 AM

SimonM:
Bob Pritchett:
But our research indicated a lifetime use of 6 note files or less per user,
So WHAT! The real question that begs to be asked is "why" why are so few notes being taken when there seems to be so much discussion about notes?

Simon,

Just couldn't resist here. Bob was talking about note files, not notes. What he said (in other words) was that most users put their notes in no more than about 6 note files. Hence this is part of the justification for not putting a new note file option in the right click menu for selected text.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 8:17 AM

SimonM:
Why to I get the feeling we have endowed statistics with "god" like status as if they can solve all our problems.

I am sure Bob Pritchett does not allow statistics to have the final say in any decision. We both know if he did do that Logos would have gone bankrupt years ago. I was in Quality Control at General Motors in the 1990s. When our assembly plant implemented Statistical Process Control we won multiple JD Power awards and every other industry accolade. To ignore accurately gathered statistics is to fly blindly, un-necessarily. I think Bob is just offering a little peak into why he chose this direction (since not everyone recognizes Bob is a sentient being and rather adept at making GOOD business decisions.)

SimonM:
;-) Studies have shown and statistics have proven the human species suffers a 100% mortality rate. The real question is "why".

I will probably get spanked for going theological here but;
I think it is a good thing 100% of humans suffer mortality. Else, why in the Garden would God find it needful to remove Adam & Eve before they ate of the other tree and live forever in a fallen state? My "death" will only be the removal of this body of sin and the putting on of a new body, like unto the Lord's. (I will even have 2 feet to run with again! ~amputee, here.)  But you are right. Asking "WHY?" something is so, is really where the smarts are required. And I think Bob Pritchett has a track record he can be proud of.

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 10:45 AM

Robert Pavich:
face to face meeting

When you are face to face with someone you can see facial expression, body language, and inflections in our voice, none of which you can observe in forums, so more care needs to be taken in communication.  ( And sometimes I'm downright carnal)

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 336
Icarus38376 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 6:36 PM

Matt,

I think the "nominally Christian organization" part you spoke about is more frustrating than the bugs...

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 7:02 PM

I hope I am misunderstanding this "nominally Christian" statement. If I am not misunderstanding it, I have two scriptures I'd like everyone to read before this gets worse:

James 4:11-12 

Matthew 7:1-6

Thank you in advance for leaving judgment to the Judge.

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LogosEmployee

Matt:

Bug #5:

When hovering over the footnote 66 in the search pane I see one representation (which makes no sense for what I had searched on):

But when I actually open the resource and hover, I see another representation (which does fit what I was searching for):

This will be fixed in 4.2 Beta 2.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 8:10 PM

Bradley Grainger:

Matt:

Bug #5:

When hovering over the footnote 66 in the search pane I see one representation (which makes no sense for what I had searched on):

But when I actually open the resource and hover, I see another representation (which does fit what I was searching for):

This will be fixed in 4.2 Beta 2.

Good news!

 

Dave
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