Running Very Slowly - Logs attached

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Posts 10
Scott Aniol | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Oct 7 2010 8:26 PM

Running very slowly on my Mac. Logs attached. Can someone take a look and offer any help? Thanks.

6457.Archive.zip

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:56 PM

Welcome Big Smile

Wondering what feels slow to use ?  Screenshot could be helpful.

Noticed CollectionStatePreferences occurs several times in logos4.log file.

Likewise saw many carbonite messages (online backup) in console messages.  Observation: carbonite and Logos sync duplicating effort to copy Logos 4 changes to network servers (at nearly same time).

Note: Time Machine backup needs an external disk drive (backs up all files initially), then once an hour backs up incremental changes - can exclude Logos 4 index folders (e.g. BibleIndex and LibraryIndex) since Indexes can be rebuilt.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 10
Scott Aniol | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 5:20 AM

Everything is slow! Scrolling, searching, moving windows, opening resources... any of these things take a long time with a spinning rainbow wheel!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 8 2010 5:50 AM

Scott Aniol:

Everything is slow! Scrolling, searching, moving windows, opening resources... any of these things take a long time with a spinning rainbow wheel!

Wonder what happens to Logos responsiveness if Carbonite turned off ?

One cause for spinning rainbow wheel is paging - Activity Monitor can show System Memory usage:

After restarting Mac, Page outs is 0 bytes - if Page outs is large number (especially GB's), upgrading RAM good idea.  If Mac already has maximum RAM installed, upgrading Mac good idea.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 10 2010 10:20 PM

Scott Aniol:

Running very slowly on my Mac. Logs attached. Can someone take a look and offer any help? Thanks.

6457.Archive.zip

Noticed same set of logs posted in 2 other forum threads => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22103/180936.aspx#180936 and http://community.logos.com/forums/p/23929/180260.aspx#180260

Only needed to post once.  Several Logos developers read every thread in this forum (along with some volunteers).

 

Scott Aniol:

Everything is slow! Scrolling, searching, moving windows, opening resources... any of these things take a long time with a spinning rainbow wheel!

Spinning rainbow wheel (beach ball) for everything is unusual (and annoying) - wonder if spinning beach ball happening in other programs ?

The X Labs has Spinning Beach Ball of Death page => http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/sbbod.html (for forum reading and posting, doing last section periodically to empty web browser cache - helps performance)

Logos 4 Mac is a resource intensive application (opens hundreds of files).  Prior to earlier reply, read about Carbonite - cloud backup of files - compressed before sending across network.  Possibility: Logos 4 Mac and Carbonite contending for computer resources (disk, memory, processor, and network) => Spinning Beach Balls.  Analogous to rush hour traffic jam with automobile brake lights.

Appears Carbonite has System Preferences tab - can enable, disable, or pause backup.  For several minutes, wonder about pausing Carbonite to see if Logos 4 Mac performance improves (significantly fewer spinning beach balls).

 

Wiki Mac Troubleshooting page => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Time_Machine_Backup  folder exclusion is something to consider for Carbonite.  Quickest way to improve performance is avoiding unnecessary effort.

 

 

From forum http://community.logos.com/forums/p/23929/180261.aspx#180261

David Mitchell:

Scott Aniol:
Can you take a look at my logs, David? Things are VERY slow for me as well.

I'll need a bit more information than that. What things, specifically, are slow for you?

By way of example, experienced many minutes of Spinning Beach Balls today => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/24334.aspx - posted specific steps so Logos developer(s) can repeat, examine underlying code, and fix in a future release (from past Alpha and Beta issues, know resolution may take awhile - depends on issue).

 

From forum http://community.logos.com/forums/p/23929/180272.aspx#180272 know Power Lookup and Information panels have critical performance issue - minimize use for now.

Looking at logs, noticed same window size message as forum => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24332/181020.aspx#181020  - also checked for crash messages - nothing.  Suspect visual highlighting being used in ESV Bible.  Know search done for harmony.  Can appreciate Logos Development Lead asking for specifically slow example(s).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 8:09 AM

KS4J,

While I appreciate your eagerness to help and your desire to see L4 Mac received well (I want that as much or more than anyone). The simple fact is, based on my experience and that of many that have posted similarly, L4 Mac is (how can I put this politely) a dog when it comes to performance. In all other respects I think the app is tremendous and the devs have done a great job. I raise a glass to them and give my thanks. However, at least for me, L4 Win7 under parallels smokes L4 Mac, and I do not think I am alone in that assessment.

I understand the desire to attribute the problem to something such as Carbonite and the like (and perhaps that advice would be a good temporary help), but I doubt the issues that you raise are causing all other apps and the entire machine to slow down.

Please do not take my post as personally critical or in anyway derogatory. That is not the case. I simply would like to raise the awareness (as if it needs to be raised more than the current scream) that, at least for many, L4 Mac has some serious performance issues that do not plague L4 Win. It needs serious optimization. I am at the point where I could give a hoot about any more features. I would much rather be able to do something as basic as scroll a pane in real time.

Again, this is all based on my own experience and the many posts that I see in the forums and is not meant to be a personal hit to you. I also recognize the good advice to post logs. Thank you. I have always appreciated your insights and helpfulness in the forums. You always seem to have a level head and thoughts that have been helpful to me.

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 8:30 AM

In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, I will post my machine specs as I realize that may be my issue, although I do not think I am running an underpowered machine for Logos. However, I could be completely wrong (which would not surprise me).

Mac OS X 10.6.4, 2.93 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 24" iMac, 4 GB ram. I think it is a late 2009 model. The one before the introduction of the Core i5/i7 series.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 9:37 PM

Michael Paul:
I understand the desire to attribute the problem to something such as Carbonite and the like (and perhaps that advice would be a good temporary help), but I doubt the issues that you raise are causing all other apps and the entire machine to slow down.

Desire usable experience with Logos - applying Operations Research queueing theory - as resource utilization increases over 90 %, wait time significantly lengthens.  After researching Carbonite, recognized realistic opportunity to degrade Logos performance from slow to agonizing.

Within Logos 4, added close all shortcut - close all panels before switching layouts - each layout has minimal resources open - helps scrolling speed (quicker to scroll one or few resources than simultaneously scrolling many) - added several resource shortcuts for quick access in any layout.

Have learned to monitor memory usage - paging is always slow (often spinning beach ball) - personal reason for upgrade to 16 GB Ram - Activity Monitor showed Eight not enough (while composing this post, had 9.7 GB memory used with a dozen applications open).

Michael Paul:

In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, I will post my machine specs as I realize that may be my issue, although I do not think I am running an underpowered machine for Logos. However, I could be completely wrong (which would not surprise me).

Mac OS X 10.6.4, 2.93 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 24" iMac, 4 GB ram. I think it is a late 2009 model. The one before the introduction of the Core i5/i7 series.

Underpowered ? - suspect depends on usage (what's open at same time) - several Logos 4 Mac forum posters are using MacBooks with slower processors and less memory.

When buying computer hardware, literally look for best bang for the buck - a 27" iMac with 2.8 GHz Quad Core i7 costs $,$$$ (refurbished similar to Logos 4 Scholar's Platinum Library) - read several reviews about desktop i7 being noticeably faster than i5 and Core 2 Duo: e.g. http://www.barefeats.com/imi7.html - after upgrading RAM to 8GB, changing to 64 bit kernel in Mac OS X 10.6.* was noticeably faster (avoids address context switching) - dreaming of 64 bit Logos 4.

Likewise learned running 64 bit Windows 7 in Virtual Machine (for Logos 4) is noticeably faster than 32 bit Windows XP - rebuilding index difference measured in hours (like 2 better than 5).

Mono Project OS X page opines about 64 bit support - custom compilation needed => http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX - do not know about 64 bit viability for Logos 4 Mac (suspect matching kernel addressing mode likely best performance).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 6:36 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Michael Paul:
I understand the desire to attribute the problem to something such as Carbonite and the like (and perhaps that advice would be a good temporary help), but I doubt the issues that you raise are causing all other apps and the entire machine to slow down.

Desire usable experience with Logos - applying Operations Research queueing theory - as resource utilization increases over 90 %, wait time significantly lengthens.  After researching Carbonite, recognized realistic opportunity to degrade Logos performance from slow to agonizing.

Within Logos 4, added close all shortcut - close all panels before switching layouts - each layout has minimal resources open - helps scrolling speed (quicker to scroll one or few resources than simultaneously scrolling many) - added several resource shortcuts for quick access in any layout.

Have learned to monitor memory usage - paging is always slow (often spinning beach ball) - personal reason for upgrade to 16 GB Ram - Activity Monitor showed Eight not enough (while composing this post, had 9.7 GB memory used with a dozen applications open).

Michael Paul:

In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, I will post my machine specs as I realize that may be my issue, although I do not think I am running an underpowered machine for Logos. However, I could be completely wrong (which would not surprise me).

Mac OS X 10.6.4, 2.93 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 24" iMac, 4 GB ram. I think it is a late 2009 model. The one before the introduction of the Core i5/i7 series.

Underpowered ? - suspect depends on usage (what's open at same time) - several Logos 4 Mac forum posters are using MacBooks with slower processors and less memory.

When buying computer hardware, literally look for best bang for the buck - a 27" iMac with 2.8 GHz Quad Core i7 costs $,$$ (refurbished similar to Logos 4 Scholar's Platinum Library) - read several reviews about desktop i7 being noticeably faster than i5 and Core 2 Duo: e.g. http://www.barefeats.com/imi7.html - after upgrading RAM to 8GB, changing to 64 bit kernel in Mac OS X 10.6.* was noticeably faster (avoids address context switching) - dreaming of 64 bit Logos 4.

Likewise learned running 64 bit Windows 7 in Virtual Machine (for Logos 4) is noticeably faster than 32 bit Windows XP - rebuilding index difference measured in hours (like 2 better than 5).

Mono Project OS X page opines about 64 bit support - custom compilation needed => http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX - do not know about 64 bit viability for Logos 4 Mac (suspect matching kernel addressing mode likely best performance).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

KS4J,

There is no doubt in my mind that you are much smarter than I when it comes to this sort of thing. Honestly, you lost me at "applying Operations Research queueing theory". Tongue Tied I just want to point out that it seems unlikely that his whole machine is running slower because of Carbonite. I realize it might be the one thing that is detrimentally affecting L4Mac. To me, that seems to suggest that the problem lies with L4Mac. If your advice can help, I am thankful. Like I said, I have always received some insight from your posts.

My intention is simply to reinforce the fact that L4Mac needs to be optimized, in a serious way. In the past week I have completely reinstalled a fresh copy of L4Mac, new indexing and all, disabled all extra resources and restart in the morning before I fire it up and I still cannot scroll in real time (it is much better if there are no linked panes, but that is what Logos is designed for), the library pane, when opened, slows everything down, and the prayer list pane drags everything down even more. I am running with four gigs of ram and it never maxes out, though I fear opening up another app that it will slow Logos down even more.

Do you think more ram would help even though I do not max out currently?

Grace and peace to you and thanks for the helpful advice. I look forward to more of it.

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 9:52 AM

Michael Paul:
My intention is simply to reinforce the fact that L4Mac needs to be optimized

This fact needs no more reinforcement. We're working on it.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 856
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 11:39 AM

David Mitchell:
This fact needs no more reinforcement. We're working on it.

David, thank you for the acknowledgement that you all are, indeed, working on this. My apologies if I seem too overbearing on the subject. I would like to note that despite my, perhaps ill perceived, tone (which is never intended) I recognize and do appreciate the talented work of your staff in the dev department.

Posts 2706
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 4:24 PM

I never ran Activity Monitor until today. While I am not surprised by Logos, I was shocked at how much memory Safari seemed to use--not really all that far behind. I think I will turn off my browser for the duration with Logos running. Or at least close some tabs.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 5:00 PM

Michael Paul:
Honestly, you lost me at "applying Operations Research queueing theory". Tongue Tied

Apologies - practical example is rush hour traffic - as number of vehicles increases, so does amount of brake lights - quite noticeable when traffic merges - slow downs (or queues) extend longer - have been in some hours per mile situations (instead of traveling miles per hour).  When Logos running, Carbonite can be like traffic congestion - similar to Logos being slower while Time Machine doing hourly incremental backup.

Michael Paul:
Do you think more ram would help even though I do not max out currently?

Don't know - suggest running Apple's Activity Monitor - personally watch green slice on dock - when very small, also had spinning beach balls.  For my computer usage (open programs), 16 GB is adequate, used Activity Monitor to show 8 GB not enough.

Updated Slow Performance section on Mac Troubleshooting page => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance (added Activity Monitor dock icon)

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