Why less women?

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010 6:41 AM

Logos threw this question out on Facebook, And I was just wondering what the opinions of the forum users were:

Logos Bible Software Give us your input! Studies show that women are more likely to read, but only account for about 7% of Logos users. What are we missing?

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 285
Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 6:51 AM

Paul Golder:
What are we missing?

That they might enjoy Print vs a electronic title? And I'm leaving it at that Big Smile

 

Posts 2900
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:09 AM

Some observations --

My wife prefers to read Christian fiction rather than the more academic material available via LOGOS.  She reads her Bible, attends Bible Study, but the majority of her reading is Christian fiction.

She also finds some of her non-fiction reading via the United Methodist Women's annual reading list.  Though not particularly evangelical, it is thoughtful and helps her to understand some of the big issues of the day.

For her birthday, a month ago, we got her a Kindle.  She has started to read book using the Kindle, including the Christian fiction mentioned above.  What got her started on reading Kindle books (at first on her PC) were the free titles available from Amazon.  There are two or three new Christian title each week on the free Kindle book list.  She has also started to buy a few books for herself (as have I).  Some of these same books are free as e-books from CBD in other formats (e.g. epub), though she has not explored CBD for this purpose.

One more thought - I know I can share my LOGOS library with my wife, but it is an all-or-nothing proposition.  She would be much more likely to use LOGOS if I could share a few key Bibles and commentaries with her.  I am much more likely to install e-sword because of its cost and the ability to select and choose what I install.  One solution might be to allow a second user ID to be tied to an account - and then allow the user to select which books (already purchased) are installed into the second account.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 2946
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:11 AM

Paul Golder:

Logos threw this question out on Facebook, And I was just wondering what the opinions of the forum users were:

Logos Bible Software Give us your input! Studies show that women are more likely to read, but only account for about 7% of Logos users. What are we missing?

I hope that we do not hear the same sexist statements made here like what is being posted on Facebook.

This is a very valid question that I believe only women can answer.  (Guys, how many times have you spoken on behalf of your wife and got into trouble?)

Posts 88
Nancy A. Almodovar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:13 AM

as I said on FB and will repeat here, the steady diet for women is poor theology, whereas Luther and the Reformers had hoped the milkmaid would know more about the Bible that pope or cardinal and the women then did.  Many died as martyrs because they knew their theology.  Sadly, women's conferences are mostly on emotional things, like it is assumed that women aren't thinkers.  It is the task of women, biblically to train their children (see Deut. 6) in the fear and admonition of the Lord and yet, ask the women in your church if they even know how to catechise their children in the basics.  So, if Logos would promote their tools as useful to help in the training of their children, to be able to give and answer for their faith at home, amongst family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and promote books that teach women what their biblical duties are, then maybe Logos will improve.

Second, if Logos would enable us to transfer books to Kindle THAT would increase sales not just for women but also amongst men.  Kindle is fast becoming the e-reader standard (sorry nook, i think you'll go the way of the Beta vs. VHS)

Posts 19
Josh Bond | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:23 AM

Paul Golder:
Give us your input! Studies show that women are more likely to read, but only account for about 7% of Logos users. What are we missing?

 A large percentage of Logos users are pastors, preachers, in seminary, or involved in teaching in the ministry? And we find substantially less women in those positions in many areas of Christianity? And Logos is not just for passive reading (like a kindle), it provides tools for performing your own analysis in various ways. And, I would argue, you would be less likely to do your own analysis if your not holding a leadership position. Also, consider that some areas of Christianity say the man is the head of the household and the spiritual leader, which, I would argue, discourages women from using a bible study tool as in depth as Logos?

I put question marks here because these are just guesses.

 

Posts 915
Joan Korte | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:27 AM

Paul Golder:

Logos threw this question out on Facebook, And I was just wondering what the opinions of the forum users were:

Logos Bible Software Give us your input! Studies show that women are more likely to read, but only account for about 7% of Logos users. What are we missing?

Could this be related to the percentage of women who are pastors or in the clergy?  (And, please, maybe I did not choose the right terms, but I mean in the ministry full-time, of some sort)  IOW, there are fewer women using Logos because there are fewer in ministry positions??? I am tossing that idea out but I haven't done the math.  

What is of interest to me is why are there so few women who are regulars on the forums.   

 

Posts 8263
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:46 AM

• Logos is geared almost exclusively towards American Evangelical pastors. How many percent of American Evangelical pastors are women?

• From what I've gathered from their husbands here on the forums there seem to be an amazing number of American women who never use computers at all. To me, as a Swede, that is almost unimaginable, but if it's true, how can they be expected to use Logos? And it's not exactly like Logos is a beginner's program. It has a learning curve that's a 100 times steeper than any program I've ever come across. Women don't usually put up with that. I know I wouldn't have, if I'd known 4 months ago what I know today (now, unfortunately, I've invested too much time to go back).

• If we look at the Catholic church, an awful lot of the actual teaching is done by nuns. Nuns take vows of poverty: they can't afford something like Logos -- least of all when they first have to buy a package that's 90% Evangelical, and then immediately start adding expensive Catholic resources to it, before they can have anything that's even remotely similar to what an Evangelical pastor gets for a fraction of that sum -- and even if they could, or someone should give it to them, there's still a little problem: nuns aren't allowed private property. The 'one license -- one user' policy simply doesn't work for them. By not offering a Catholic base package and several user licenses Logos has essentially shut out convents, monasteries and Catholic schools from their potential user base. That's a pretty large market to exclude!

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 686
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:50 AM

Paul Golder:

Logos threw this question out on Facebook, And I was just wondering what the opinions of the forum users were:

Logos Bible Software Give us your input! Studies show that women are more likely to read, but only account for about 7% of Logos users. What are we missing?

In my opinion, there is little correlation between "more likely to read" and being a "Logos user." I don't use Logos to read books. I use it for research. I find it difficult to read books on a computer, so I bought a Kindle. I agree with Nancy: if it were easier (I recognize it is doable) to get Logos books on a Kindle, we may find more women using Logos. I know that I would appreciate Logos even more than I do now.

I think the comments about vocational ministry are also important. The sophistication of Logos requires that it be a relatively expensive program, and it is well worth it. A large proportion of us in vocational ministry have some sort of professional reimbursement or expense account which helps fund the cost of Logos. Probably a lot of us would be without Logos were that not the case. I recognize that many on this forum are not in vocational ministry, but they are the exception (and quite exceptional! Smile) and not the rule.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 475
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 7:58 AM

This is just my take on it having tried to get my wife interested..... The learning curve is steep with L4 and with small children it can be hard to find time to rest? Read the bible. Never mind "toy" with learning the program. My wife has expressed an interest though.... Maybe it's related to stage in life.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:01 AM

Nancy A. Almodovar:

as I said on FB and will repeat here, the steady diet for women is poor theology, whereas Luther and the Reformers had hoped the milkmaid would know more about the Bible that pope or cardinal and the women then did.  Many died as martyrs because they knew their theology.  Sadly, women's conferences are mostly on emotional things, like it is assumed that women aren't thinkers.  It is the task of women, biblically to train their children (see Deut. 6) in the fear and admonition of the Lord and yet, ask the women in your church if they even know how to catechise their children in the basics.  So, if Logos would promote their tools as useful to help in the training of their children, to be able to give and answer for their faith at home, amongst family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and promote books that teach women what their biblical duties are, then maybe Logos will improve.

Second, if Logos would enable us to transfer books to Kindle THAT would increase sales not just for women but also amongst men.  Kindle is fast becoming the e-reader standard (sorry nook, i think you'll go the way of the Beta vs. VHS)

 

I agree...I'm not sure why this is though...do women not support more "theological" stuff and so that stuff went by the wayside or is it the other way around...they want it...but nobody's offering it to them?

 

Being a man....I don't know :)

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 88
Nancy A. Almodovar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:20 AM

People in general will want what they are given because they become accustomed to it.  Women have been spiritually fed trifles and, I dare say heresies (think oneness and word of faith, as they are the leading women authors/speakers).  If women are given good doctrine they will grow to love and cherish the truths of God's Word but sadly we've been given bad meat and cotton candy as our daily staple.  More and more women when they are given good meat and the milk of the Word quickly develop a taste for it and long to be fed on it.

 

nancy

Posts 1255
Divinesoteriology | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:24 AM

My wife does use logos, but only if she is teaching a womens group. For daily use, she is more likely to use Glo. She does like the puzzle feature in l3 for the kids.

Hoster of CHRISTIAN DEBATE FORUM: Apologetics, Theology Proper, Soteriology,  Eschatology

Posts 8263
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:24 AM

Joan Korte:
What is of interest to me is why are there so few women who are regulars on the forums.

• If only 7% of the users are women, we can hardly expect more than 7% of posters to be women.

• When women have technical/computer problems, they generally prefer to ask someone privately, rather than advertise it on a public forum; a) because they tend to assume that it's they who are stupid, rather than the product that is badly designed or malfunctioning; and b) because they tend to assume that the answer they would get would be too technical for them anyway. 

• The attitude on these forums is often quite aggressive, especially towards anyone who dares to imply that he or she hasn't fallen head over heals in love with Logos. Women generally stay away from such environments.

• Women generally have better things to do. How many of you women posters out there have husbands and children? So far I can't remember reading a single woman mentioning any immediate family. Or wait, I believe someone's wife jumped in with a line or two once, but that's about all.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1671
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:27 AM

Mike Tourangeau:
Read the bible. Never mind "toy" with learning the program.

This has been my experience. There seems to be a innate intuitiveness that women are blessed with.

Sort of like "Why do you spend all that time studying to learn what the Bible plainly says?"

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 915
Joan Korte | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:50 AM

fgh:

Joan Korte:
What is of interest to me is why are there so few women who are regulars on the forums.

• If only 7% of the users are women, we can hardly expect more than 7% of posters to be women.

• When women have technical/computer problems, they generally prefer to ask someone privately, rather than advertise it on a public forum; a) because they tend to assume that it's they who are stupid, rather than the product that is badly designed or malfunctioning; and b) because they tend to assume that the answer they would get would be too technical for them anyway. 

• The attitude on these forums is often quite aggressive, especially towards anyone who dares to imply that he or she hasn't fallen head over heals in love with Logos. Women generally stay away from such environments.

• Women generally have better things to do. How many of you women posters out there have husbands and children? So far I can't remember reading a single woman mentioning any immediate family. Or wait, I believe someone's wife jumped in with a line or two once, but that's about all.

For me, to use Logos is to have questions is to have to use the forum because there is no one to ask privately.  My guess is that there are lots of lurkers who are content to glean and when there are some ugly threads I retreat and lurk. 

And, I have a husband so I do have someone to take care of.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:58 AM

Joan Korte:
when there are some ugly threads

Everything we do and say should be filtered through Jesus' command to love one another, but alas it is not so. I think this makes us disobedient children.

(Off topic, but I couldn't help it)

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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Dan DeVilder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 9:08 AM

I broached this topic on another thread about what "I" would do if I had $1,000,000 to invest in Logos.

 

Dan DeVilder:

have beth moore or kay arthur do simulcast studies with logos software.  tie it in to Bible Study magazine on going feature.  Broadcast on you tube.  Offer discounts to all entrants.  if they complete course give them upgrade discounts to next level.

Just flinging a few ideas out there.  my wife doesn't touch Logos.  thinks it is too complicated or cerebral.  but she loves those women.  and study.   that might be a bridge to many more logos users.  make it simple, practical, and pleasing to the eye.  I am telling you, think visually, too.  it matters not to many tech people or academicians, but it sure does artistic people and women.  persoonalize. 

run bible studies interfaced with facebook.  think how many moms are on that?

 

I still stand by those ideas.  As for why more women are not on these forums: several have mentioned good things: percentage of women overall is small, this forum can be rancorous at times, etc.  I might add to those that I don't know many women who are into the technical side of Logos, nor are many using it for study--so why would they log on?  We try to stay away from helpful discussions and sometimes relationship building is frowned on ("going OT," "hijacking" etc).  And yet I can show you many forums (like Sonlight curriculum) where my wife frequents that are loaded with ongoing interaction by women (on topics from curriculum to bulk cooking to wild Christian sex between husband and wife.  not kidding!).  

 

Logos would need to hire some women consultants who know their market, and make appropriate changes.

 

I'll bet if Logos could market a way to do Beth Moore studies in a "straightforward way" (like having a layout suggestion, resources already pulled together in a customized guide, a way to fill in entries/answers/thoughts to the questions within the program, and perhaps tie all of that even to a webcast, or something, you'd find a new market open up.

 

 

EDIT: sorry, forgot to link to the thread above, as I have done now.

 

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Posts 8263
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 9:14 AM

Joan Korte:
there is no one to ask privately

Same for me.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 915
Joan Korte | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 9:22 AM

fgh:

Joan Korte:
there is no one to ask privately

Same for me.

Let me add that given I have no one to ask privately I have found the forum to be loaded with tips and suggestions and really good tech support for anyone with a question.  So, I am thankful for all the help.

And Dan, yes, bring on Beth Moore!

 

 

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