Help with Greek search

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Nielsen Tomazini | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 20 2011 12:06 PM

Hello everyone,

I am trying to get a result on searching for Greek words but I have not been able to do it.

The final result that I want is to get all the results in the NT for the verb καταρτίζω and the nouns: κατάρτισις and καταρτισμός .

Let me explain the core of this problem: I was working on Ephisians 4:12 where I have the word καταρτισμός (Lemma). I wanted to find all the occurrences of this word in the NT. So I did a search for this Lemma. It comes out to be the only occurrence of this Lemma. Fine, but I know that there are related words for this Greek term. 

Well I could do a wildcard search removing few letters at the end of the word, but still I don't get an accurate result. For example I cannon find the word κατηρτισμένος that occurs in Luke 6:40. 

So, my question is: Is there a way to search for a Lemma from a verb that would give me the nouns derived (or related) to that verb?

I thank in advance any reply.
Blessings 

www.aprendalogos.com 
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 12:22 PM

The easiest way to do this is right click on the word somewhere where you find it, select the Lemma tab on the right hand side of the popup menu (make sure you select the right lemma if you're selecting the word in a reverse interlinear where one English word can correspond to more than one Greek word). Then click "Search this resource" on the left.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 1:02 PM

Nielsen, I think the answer is no. As you've discovered a wild card search matches the letters exactly plus whatever it finds beyond the letters you enter (the wild-card portion). When the actual word in the text has undergone a change in letters because of its usage in the text, this kind of search won't find it. A lemma search on the original word does, but not a wild card search.

I know of no way to do what you'd like to do without knowing in advance all the lemmas and entering them in the search with the word OR between. I admit it would be handy to be able to do so.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 1:05 PM

I think Rosie just showed you what you already know how to do.

You asked, "Is there a way to search for a Lemma from a verb that would give me the nouns derived (or related) to that verb?"

Since the two examples you use, καταρτισμός  and κατηρτισμένος , are not exactly related (do a lookup on each of them in BDAG for example), the best I can answer, and I'll leave to the experts, is to do a Syntax search - would this answer your question, if you got search results in the NT for all instances of a specific lemma being used as a  verb, followed by a noun or an object which contains a noun?

Also, there aren't that many places where καταρτίζω  is used as a lemma, if you check out this search you can see what the nouns are that follow it. The search could be refined to add a complement that contains a Noun following the lemma if you wanted to. Does this help or am I off base in approach?

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 1:12 PM

Peace to you, Nielsen!  *smile*    And!  Joy in the Lord!

If you have a bit of time for exploring, you can also search your entire library for interesting references to the lemma that you are examining.

I did a simple search and found all kinds of resources that I'd be interested in pursuing.  Time probably is the biggest factor for you, though.

For Example:

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 1:19 PM

Nielsen,

It has been requested before to have a search that will find words that are cognates of each other. Consider adding your vote of support on the Uservoice forum: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/682641-stem-cognate-search?ref=title

If you know the range of cognates to begin with one can perform a wild-card search, or search for a list (separated by commas). If you notice in the graphic below the first wild-card search missed one hit because one of the cognates has an accent in the middle (see the middle search). The final search adjusts for this with a ?... indicating any character.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 1:22 PM

Louw Nida Semantic Domains could be helpful (e.g. 75.5) => logosres:louwnida;ref=LouwNida.75.5 - has 4 lemmas so one search can be: 

<Lemma = lbs/el/ἐξαρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/κατάρτισις> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτισμός>

Keep Smiling Smile

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 2:45 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Louw Nida Semantic Domains could be helpful (e.g. 75.5) => logosres:louwnida;ref=LouwNida.75.5 - has 4 lemmas so one search can be: 

<Lemma = lbs/el/ἐξαρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/κατάρτισις> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτισμός>

 

Did you use Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) to find these 4 lemmas? That's what I did, wondering if there is a different way.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 4:33 PM

Dominick Sela:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Louw Nida Semantic Domains could be helpful (e.g. 75.5) => logosres:louwnida;ref=LouwNida.75.5 - has 4 lemmas so one search can be: 

<Lemma = lbs/el/ἐξαρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτίζω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/κατάρτισις> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/καταρτισμός>

Did you use Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) to find these 4 lemmas? That's what I did, wondering if there is a different way.

Apologies to George Somsel (who detests interlinears).

Searched library using initial lemma - found a verse - opened English bible with reverse interlinear - clicked Louw Nida number - opened "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains" (based on my library priorities) - compared list of 4 lemmas with initial post - found 3 out of 3 matched - did Bible search with 4 lemmas (verify syntax) then replied, including Logos URL logosres:louwnida;ref=LouwNida.75.5 (can click to open Logos resource to Louw Nida 75.5 - included in Original Language and higher base packages)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 4:57 PM

Dominick Sela:

I think Rosie just showed you what you already know how to do.

 

Yes, indeed I did. Sorry. I didn't read the question carefully enough. Now I will echo Kevin's answer: you need cognate search which doesn't exist yet. Go vote for it! Others have suggested some partial work-arounds in the meantime. I won't bother echoing those.

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 20 2011 6:13 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Searched library using initial lemma - found a verse - opened English bible with reverse interlinear - clicked Louw Nida number - opened "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains" (based on my library priorities) - compared list of 4 lemmas with initial post - found 3 out of 3 matched - did Bible search with 4 lemmas (verify syntax) then replied, including Logos URL logosres:louwnida;ref=LouwNida.75.5 (can click to open Logos resource to Louw Nida 75.5 - included in Original Language and higher base packages)

 

That's what I figured once I saw your post on this, excellent idea! This seems to really catch all the related lemmas, no? It's a good substitute for cognate search until/if we get it!

Actually what I did, and I think this works very well, is searched for the LN number 75.5 (which I found in the interlinear) in "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains. Boom - 4 results, 4 lemmas. That quick/.

Posts 242
Nielsen Tomazini | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 21 2011 8:18 AM

First of all, thank you all very much for taking the time to help on my question.
Each reply gave me a good idea about what could be done, and Dominick's suggestion of searching for LN 75.5 worked perfect for me. Now I could get in a simple search the desired result. That is very handy. Ahh, by the way, I have just voted for Kevin Becker's suggestion, search for cognates is indeed something quite useful, but meanwhile I believe that LN provides a shortcut to get the result.

God bless you all,

www.aprendalogos.com 
Youtube: AprendaLogos

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