Now I'm getting rather upset...

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fgh | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 2 2011 10:20 AM

And Logos didn't know this until just now because...?

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 10:35 AM

Know what? Did the date get moved back or something?

 

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Oldnewbie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 10:38 AM

Yes, the release date was originally 01/31/2011.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 10:45 AM

fgh:
And Logos didn't know this until just now because...?

Could it be?

  • They believed it would ship on the first date they listed (01/31/2011)
  • After listing that date new circumstances developed making it apparent it could not ship as originally projected.
  • Rather than move it back to "Under Development" Logos wanted to offer hope of a shipping date AND
  • Rather than nudging it 2 days at a time into the future without knowing when it would really be ready the Logos "powers-that-be" gave the team a deadline of 02/24/2011 to complete it. (When your boss is the author of "Fire Someone Today" you tend to strive harder to please him.  )


I would hate to get angry at the publishing team. You never know what unforseen personal emergency may have been a factor.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 11:31 AM

Oldnewbie:
Yes, the release date was originally 01/31/2011.

If they discovered an unforeseen flaw in late January, would it be better to ship a defective product or to let the shipping date slip. Logos tried the defective product route with the Learn to Use… video series. I don't think they will want to do that again.

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Michael March | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 12:46 PM

I think they did it for me.  I've been on again and off again on this one about ten times.  If they would have shipped today, I would have missed it as a prepub.  Now I'm on again.  Sorry to hold you all up, but thanks for waiting!

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 12:47 PM

Think of the title of that other thread: Last Chance for Catholic Dogma Collection. Now perhaps there are people who will be able to get it for the pre-pub price who would have missed out on it otherwise. The more the merrier. Spread the good cheer around instead of being grumpy that we have to wait a bit longer.

I agree with all of Matthew's suggestions as to why the slip might have happened. I used to work in software development, and there were frequently last minute things that would come up and cause us to miss a target date, by quite a lot, and we couldn't predict them in advance. If you give an artificially late predicted date up front, to give yourself a "buffer" for possible unpredicted slippage, then there isn't quite the incentive internally to work hard to make an earlier date if possible. Work expands to fill the time allotted. So you end up with getting it in just under the wire anyway, and having more possible unexpected problems causing slips. Best to try to meet an optimistic ship date and be honest when you slip, even though that makes customers upset. It's never fun being on the other side either, so try to be understanding and forgiving.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 2:07 PM

Jack Caviness:

Oldnewbie:
Yes, the release date was originally 01/31/2011.

If they discovered an unforeseen flaw in late January, would it be better to ship a defective product or to let the shipping date slip. Logos tried the defective product route with the Learn to Use… video series. I don't think they will want to do that again.

They did do that, didn't they? Big Smile And I think they will avoid doing it again.

They have also tried bumping ship dates only a couple days at a time. And that generates a lot more ire than a huge one-time delay (such as this 30 day delay.)

There really is no good way of handling a delay. When the super-aggressive October Pre-Pub flood happened, it swamped 95% of the users.

 

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 2:47 PM

Matthew C Jones:
There really is no good way of handling a delay.

Yes there is, the solution is not to publish a date until after all of the i's have been dotted and all of the t's have been crossed.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 2:52 PM

tom collinge:

Matthew C Jones:
There really is no good way of handling a delay.

Yes there is, the solution is not to publish a date until after all of the i's have been dotted and all of the t's have been crossed.

Well, we complained about that too. A lot.

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 6:08 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Well, we complained about that too. A lot.

So, it does not matter what Logos does; we are going to complain.  What does that say about us?

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 2 2011 7:14 PM

tom collinge:

So, it does not matter what Logos does; we are going to complain.  What does that say about us?

We haven't come very far since the days of the Israelites in the wilderness. "Are we there yet? We liked it better in L3. Yeah, searching was slow, but at least we had PBB..."

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 2:56 AM

Rosie Perera:
We liked it better in L3.

Not me. I very much prefer L4—with or without PBB.

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 3:58 AM

tom collinge:

So, it does not matter what Logos does; we are going to complain.  What does that say about us?

I've thought this many many times while reading threads on the forum....

Robert Pavich

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Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 4:00 AM

tom collinge:
What does that say about us?

… that we are forgiven sinners and not perfect saints? Big Smile (Gal 5:22-23,NIV)

The zeitgeist is NOW!!! The Lord says, "Watch and pray."

Patience, brothers and sisters.

Every blessing

Alan

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 4:31 AM

Jack Caviness:

Rosie Perera:
We liked it better in L3.

Not me. I very much prefer L4—with or without PBB.

You quoted me out of context. That was inside a longer quotation inside quotation marks, not my own words but a caricature of what some people around here sometimes say. It was meant as a friendly tease. Anyway, I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression and think that I like L3 better. Positively not true. I hardly ever used it. I use L4 every day.

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Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 4:33 AM

tom collinge:

Yes there is, the solution is not to publish a date until after all of the i's have been dotted and all of the t's have been crossed.

Really, I wonder what happened with the initial release of the "Learn Hebrew and Greek with Logos 4". There definitely didn't appear to be any dotting or crossing on that product before it was published, the shipped product wasn't even labeled correctly.

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Michael March | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 7:35 AM

Rosie Perera:
I like L3 better.

Hmmmm.  Really?

(sorry, couldn't resist, laughing as I type it.)

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 7:59 AM

Rosie Perera:
You quoted me out of context.

And I did it deliberately, knowing it was out of context. I should not have quoted you in that way. I just wanted to say that I preferred L4 to L3 even at its present state.

Forgive me, Rosie. I promise to behave myself in the future. Geeked

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 3 2011 8:03 AM

Dennis Miller:
Really, I wonder what happened with the initial release of the "Learn Hebrew and Greek with Logos 4".

It was Logos' first attempt at that type of resource. Hopefully, they learned something that will help the next attempt to be better. I found the content to be valuable  despite the faults.

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