Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew

I have watched all of the videos (Hebrew and Greek) a couple of times and plan to set aside time to actually go through again more methodically, taking notes and doing som exercises on my own. They are not intended to help you learn the languages, rather help you become familiar with some aspects of the grammar and, as Jack said, help you understand how L4 can help you to study the orginal language without knowing it. They are very useful and informative and you may find they help you understand some things about Hebrew and Greek that would enhance your other efforts.

Having taken a traditional Greek class in Seminary, I find the DVD's a great help. I find traditional Greek classes (parsing charts, Dipthongs, etc.)  real waste of time. Because, as my most contemporary Greek professor told us (who had a Doctrate in language), in order for you to keep up with the memorization that the Greek Parsing charts mandates, you will have to continually review the parsing charts and most pastors (if they are like me) just do not have the time to do that. So, I find the DVDs to be very helpful, as far as, reminding me of things learned in seminary. It goes in pretty good detail of the parts of speech and how they effect Bible translation and interpretation.

They said that when you complete the DVD courses, you will have obtained (if you start with no prior knowledge), a three year class equivilant in knowledge. Others have said that it teaches you to use Greek and Hebrew with Logos; and that is true. But hey if you are like me I have too much money invested in Logos to go and use another software. So while I am using Logos, I might as well learn to use the Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos a little better.

On another note; however, it is priced WAY to high. I obtained mine during pre-pub for $199., but now I believe it is priced at 499. Is it helpful? Very much so. Is it priced over the top? Very much so. Only you can determine usage versus price. It does carry a 30 day mony back guarantee.

For Greek, you may also want to check out Learn to Read New Testament Greek by Dr. David Black. I am currently studying under him, and the way/order he presents the material is great.

For Hebrew, you may want to consider Introducing Biblical Hebrew by Dr. Allen Ross and its great companion website/online lectures (free) by Charles Grebe. I have also used these resources with great success, though I still have a long way to go.

I wish you the best on your language studies; it is very rewarding.

Brent

I would also concur with using Bill Mounce's materials .  In fact,
I'm preparing to teach a class in Beginning Greek at church and using
material he has produced.   Those are great resources to learn the original languages.  Lots of links can be found at: http://www.biblicalgreek.org/  as well.

Blessings,

Joe

Eric Williamson said:

I am a new Logos user who is pursuing an MDiv.  I am doing my coursework online due to other obligations which make it difficult for me to attend residential courses.  However, I am very interested in learning Hebrew and Greek.  

I know that this DVD series is supposed to help one get the most out of Logos in regards to using the original languages, but will it help me actually learn the languages?  If so, how much help will it be in that respect?  I'm just having a hard time discerning exactly what the series is supposed to teach me.  In case it is pertinent, I own the L4 Scholar's Library.

Thank you all very much for your help!

-Eric

I'm somewhat old school on learning languages.  I learned Greek from Crosby and Schaeffer Introduction to Greek (classical Greek) and Hebrew from Davidson's Hebrew Grammar.  I am not really attuned to some of the new methods such as the videos published by Logos and will therefore say nothing regarding them.  What I will say is that language study is something which requires persistence and regular work.  You will not learn by osmosis so don't put a book under your seat or play tapes while you sleep.  It is WORK.  I think one of the most important factors to learning languages ("dead" languages) is the regular reading of texts.  You should also acquire good tools.  A carpenter would not attempt to build a house with a child's toolbox, and you cannot learn a language well with poor grammars and poor lexicons.  Some grammars are very limited in what they tell you about the various forms.  This is satisfactory AS A BEGINNING.  But like Paul, you need to begin to eat meat if you wish to grow strong.  Get good grammars and good lexicons -- this particularly means that you should not rely on Strong's or Barclay Newman.  Get BDAG and HALOT (and / or Brown, Driver, Briggs).  Don't simply look in the lexicon and pick whatever gloss suits your fancy.  Examine the context and see how the different glosses given are used in passages cited and see how your text compares.  Above all, read, read, READ.

David Paul said:

Jack Caviness said:

Dr Heiser also makes this point in the Learn to Use Hebrew video series. He also strongly encourages students to avoid Strong's.

 

That's very highbrow and all, but I have found a few instances where Strong's is the ONLY lexicon to give a proper explanation of certain words. Of course, there are thousands of cases where Strong's gives the exact same definitions found in HALOT, BDB, BDAG, Gesenius, etc.

I agree with Michael H.  How do you determine that "Strong's is the ONLY lexicon to give a proper explanation of certain words"?  Apparently you think you know more than Gesenius or Brown, Driver and Briggs or Koehler, Baumgartner and Stamm or Baur, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker if you can set yourself up as being capable to judge their work.  So, what do you do with Strong's -- pick the gloss that gives you your MOST FAVORITE interpretation or do you toss a coin?

MJ. Smith said:

David Paul said:

I think there's a bit of snootiness behind the "Strong's sucks" mentality.

I agree with you. But not for the reasons you'd like. I don't know Greek or Hebrew. I figure that if I can't even read enough Greek to find a word alphabetically, I probably have zero basis for judging the validity of a definition. I say that having spent plenty of time deep in a dictionary which was alphabetic by root not word - think go, gone, gocart, went, begone ... all under a single entry. I liken Strongs to an Oxford English dictionary accessed by number ... so I go "Huh?' On the other hand, the group that is fond of Strongs is free to use it - no skin off my back.

The "snootiness" regarding Strong's is much more than simply "snootiness."  It represents a true difference in quality of resources.  Consider the differences between HALOT and Strong's illustrated in the screenshot below where one is only given glosses and the number of times it was thus translated in the AV whereas in HALOT the different uses are separated out with references which one can then check for one's self.

MJ. Smith said:

George Somsel said:

The "snootiness" regarding Strong's is much more than simply "snootiness."  It represents a true difference in quality of resources.  Consider the differences between HALOT and Strong's ...

True, but I figure if you aren't comfortable finding a word in a dictionary, it doesn't matter much. It's like me claiming to read Chinese Buddhist texts while carrying around Fenn's 5000. (Fenn's used to be (and may still be) the standard beginners' Chinese-English dictionary - not exactly the dictionary for bronze insciptions or Buddhist texts If there ever was a language that justified numerical entries to help the beginner, Chinese is it.

You forget that you don't need to be able to find it in a dictionary with Logos -- click, click, it's there.

MJ. Smith said:

George Somsel said:

You forget that you don't need to be able to find it in a dictionary with Logos -- click, click, it's there.

True ... but I have mixed feelings about that for beginners. I love it for supplemental reading - reading beyond the text book. But I also see a danger in terms of having more confidence in one's own reading before one really has the skill to evaluate the possibilities posed by difficulties - lexical, grammatical or syntactic.

Agreed, but I think you have enough gumption to be able to use that and still learn how to "look it up in the dictionary" at the same time.  If you have L3 on your computer yet, I'll send you a file I think you will be able to use since I never had to enter a product code for it.  It should give you a little fun trying to find some Hebrew words.

George Somsel said:

I'm curious about what you consider to be his theological bias.

me to.  i am slowly working through a grammer to learn the language

David Paul said:

For what it's worth, George, I do agree that many people with limited knowledge misuse and abuse Strong's...but think that most of those would likely misuse HALOT as well. They just lack the skill set needed to use such resources in a legitimate fashion.

The problem is that there is no way to avoid misuse and abuse of Strong's.  Strong's is a list of glosses for words with notation of the frequency of their use.  You might as well play "pin the tail on the donkey" with Strong's.  Whether you like a word in a particular context is the final determinant.  It's kind of a "Who's on first" situation where one person thinks it should be used one way while another thinks differently.  Why ?  Just because they like it there.  Perhaps based on some theological preference or, probably more frequently, that's the way their favorite translations renders it.  If that's what you're going to do, why bother to make any attempt to use the original language ?  You're still relying on the English translation.

T.P. Johnston said:

Without starting a theological debate on the forum (that is certainly not its purpose), let me just say that while I've never met Dr. Heiser or communicated with him in any way, from the couple of examples I am recalling, there was a definite suggestion of Covenant/Replacement theology. That is certainly a very commonly held theological view. My point is that expressing that kind of view in teaching the Using Hebrew videos is not the most helpful thing. I've been a pastor for 40 years and picked up on it immediately. Others might adopt the conclusion simply because Dr. Heiser (a Hebrew scholar) said it without reaching their own conclusions. That was my point. And I do really appreciate Dr. Heiser encouraging his viewers to observe the text for themselves. They just need to do the same with regard to his conclusions in the examples he sets forth.

Specifics, please.  Generalized statements don't help.  I seriously doubt that he was making any theological point, but I'm willing to consider the possibility.

Which L4 books does Dr Heiser use whilst teaching this course??

It was Logos that prompted me to take formal classes in Greek and Hebrew and after taking 2 years of Greek and 1 and a half of Hebrew, the videos came out and I bought them on pre-pub.  Earlier in my life I had 4 years of Latin, the result of a rather esoteric secondary education.

For what my opinion is worth, the videos will do little to help you with the typical requirements of a Greek or Hebrew class which is largely alphabet, word form study etc.  That said, the videos are really designed to allow you do exegesis of original language text using the tools and resources available in Logos.  I think the claim that those tools put you on fairly even footing with someone having 3 years of formal language study for that purpose (exegesis) is probably correct but not in the ability to read text in the original Hebrew or Greek.  The tools take you to interpreting and understanding what is said bypassing the mechanical requirements of memorizing hundreds if not thousands of words and assoicated word ending forms. 

The vaslue of the video really depends on what you want out of original language study.  If it is just a matter of getting through the pro forma requirment for your degree, then I think the class requirments will keep you occupied.  But if you are wishing to take your understanding of the language past what you are willing to invest in formal language training, then that is another matter. 

I will say that personally I wasn't aware that the videos were now selling for $500.  I purchased them at a much lower price and honestly if they had been $500 they may have remained on my wish list, but likely never purchased. 

When I took Latin, it wasn't a dead language....g   Actually a private college prep school.  It was either Latin or French and with Latin I didn't have to run around speaking it. 

Keith Larson said:

BTW my high school daughter is taking Latin.  She is using Lingua Latina and loves it.  I think it would be exciting if someone did something like this for Koine Greek.  Perhaps a story of a family in Galilee at the time of Jesus.  In the later chapters you could include actual quotations from the gospels.  In addition, to teaching Greek it would be an excellent way of teaching about first century Jewish culture.

How about something like this (or simply this) ?

http://www.archive.org/details/greekboyathomest01rousuoft