Performance Question re: L4M

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Posts 5
Jameel Morrison | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 4 2011 11:39 AM

Hello, I recently purchased L4M and I'm running it on a 2010 Macbook Pro 13" 2.4 Core 2 Duo with 8GB of memory and a 120GB SSD.

The system was originally optimized for doing photography editing on the go; I surmise that those same upgrades would improve the performance of L4M significantly, but there seems to be both notable lag and slowdown on this system when running L4M.

I have the Scholar's Platinum Base package (as a reference point for the library size) and it is all installed on the internal drive. Usage of L4M has been the only time I've seen this computer ever falter or hesitate and I'm wondering the reasons why. I'm seeing PageIns and PageOuts on Activity Monitor like never before (12.16GB PageIns) with 5.06 GB of memory free. Am I missing something?

I'm guessing this means L4M is not coded in 64-bit (it does not say as much in the activity monitor)? Is there any plan to write a 64-bit version? I would've thought this software would be optimized to take advantage of the system configurations that are possible, now rather than weighing solely on processor speed.

I love having access to a wealth of resources, but the speed lags are a really disappointing considering my experience with my photography applications that are typically more demanding but coded to take advantage of high memory/faster disc configurations.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 11:47 AM

Jameel,

I don't have a Mac but can tell you that Logos 4 is not 64-bit. Maybe sometime in the future (or Logos 5 when it eventually comes out) but not Logos 4 at the present. I have not heard of any immediate plans to take advantage of 64-bit computing.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2723
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 11:51 AM

Compared to Windows the l4m is just slow. We all have to learn to live with it as it is not likely to get much better.

Posts 5
Jameel Morrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 12:10 PM

Is this to say, that I would realize faster performance running the Logos Software through Parallels on my existing system? I realize the library is apparently interchangeable between systems, right? 

if the Windows version is 64-bit, I would consider that. These lags are kinda egregious. I have a quad-core Mac Pro that runs it faster, but I can feel the slowness there too, and most everything else I do on these systems (Photoshop, Lightroom, editing 12MP RAW files) is snappier than a search in Logos. The search return times are quick, but the time to a "ready" system is questionable. And both of my systems have ssd boot drives off of which the program runs. And I suspect the Mac Pro is faster because it has more processing power -- the program doesn't seem to exploit the memory that is available to the application.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 1:34 PM

Jameel Morrison:
if the Windows version is 64-bit, I would consider that.

Logos 4.2a is currently 32-bit on Mac & PC.  Seem to remember Logos developers waiting for Microsoft to fix some .Net 4 issues.

Wiki http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac includes 3 virtualization options plus boot camp (can boot up Windows using Apple Hardware - Apple provides Windows drivers)

When using 64 bit Snow Leopard kernel (noticeably faster), observed Logos 4 PC was quicker in 64-bit Windows (vis 32-bit Windows).  Performance between Logos 4 Mac and Logos 4 PC depends on what feature(s) are being used (e.g. personally customized My Exegetical Guide to remove Word by Word section for much improved scrolling).

Wiki has many Mac OS X performance tips => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance (summarized from many forum discussions)

Wiki also has resource copying and scan steps => http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_Multiple_Macs#Copy_Logos_4_Resources_to_Mac_OS_X

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 692
Otto S. Carroll | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 1:38 PM

Jameel Morrison:
Is this to say, that I would realize faster performance running the Logos Software through Parallels on my existing system? I realize the library is apparently interchangeable between systems, right? 

I'm running the Windows version on Windows 7  / VMware Fusion. My Mac version performs noticeably faster than the L4 Windows on my virtual machine. I agree that the Mac version is not as snappy as other Mac programs, and it may never be. But I wouldn't call it "slow" - it is better than my virtual machine L4 and much better than my Logos 3 native windows install.

And yes, all books you own will run on both versions.

__________

15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 3:23 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:
Compared to Windows the l4m is just slow. We all have to learn to live with it as it is not likely to get much better.

I'm not quite sure what makes you say this. 4.2a included a number of performance-related improvements, and more are in the pipeline.

 

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 3:42 PM

Jameel Morrison:
I love having access to a wealth of resources, but the speed lags are a really disappointing considering my experience with my photography applications that are typically more demanding but coded to take advantage of high memory/faster disc configurations.

Logos can be sluggish as times, and further optimisation is needed from the programmers. That said, Logos is so flexible, it's quite possible to create very slow layouts, or turn options on that really slow things down. Perhaps a description of something you find particularly slow, together with a screenshot, might yield some workaround suggestions.

Posts 692
Otto S. Carroll | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 5:25 PM

David Mitchell:

4.2a included a number of performance-related improvements, and more are in the pipeline.

I am seeing significant performance improvement with 4.2a. Good to know it will continue to get better!!!

Thanks!!!

 

__________

15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)

Posts 2723
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 4 2011 5:31 PM

David Mitchell:

Kevin A. Purcell:
Compared to Windows the l4m is just slow. We all have to learn to live with it as it is not likely to get much better.

I'm not quite sure what makes you say this. 4.2a included a number of performance-related improvements, and more are in the pipeline.

Granted I've only used it for about 5 months now. But in that time I've not seen any performance increase. Same dog slow performance when compared to PC.

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 7 2011 1:15 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

David Mitchell:

Kevin A. Purcell:
Compared to Windows the l4m is just slow. We all have to learn to live with it as it is not likely to get much better.

I'm not quite sure what makes you say this. 4.2a included a number of performance-related improvements, and more are in the pipeline.

Granted I've only used it for about 5 months now. But in that time I've not seen any performance increase. Same dog slow performance when compared to PC.

Many other users have indicated that they're having a better experience with the latest version of Logos 4, and this is the first time that I can find that you've indicated that your own experience with Logos 4 for Mac has been less than satisfactory (granted, I only searched for your posts in the Logos 4 Mac forum…).

Perhaps you'd care to create a new thread with additional details? There's still quite a bit of improvement planned across the application, and we tend to prioritize areas that we know people are actually using.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 5
Jameel Morrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 7 2011 2:01 PM

I do want to note an update. I am not sure what was taking place at the time when I was opening the application (perhaps it was synchronizing and I did not notice) but the application is much better than when I authored this post. That said, it's not the snappiest program on my computer, but the 'lag' I was referencing is certainly less than it was prior.

Posts 2280
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2011 8:54 AM

The latest version is so much better--it's downright snappy compared to the previous one. One thing I noticed yesterday is that the performance appears to take a hit when Time Machine runs. So if you are busy in Logos with lots of resources or maybe it's indexing and the little TM icon starts to move, you might want to turn it off for the time being.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2011 9:42 AM

Michael Ballai:

The latest version is so much better--it's downright snappy compared to the previous one. One thing I noticed yesterday is that the performance appears to take a hit when Time Machine runs. So if you are busy in Logos with lots of resources or maybe it's indexing and the little TM icon starts to move, you might want to turn it off for the time being.

Updated Wiki Slow Performance - added:

Time Machine Backup configuration can exclude indexes that Logos 4 can rebuild – helps avoid slowdown discussed in forum Time Machine and Logos indexer DO NOT like each other!

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 66
Michael R. Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2011 5:59 PM

David:

What makes Kevin (and a host of others) say this is the bare fact that it is true. I've run L4 on Mac and PC in various configs and no matter what, it is slow. I am running 4.2 now on a faster machine than I have ever run it on and though it is faster (in many respects) than it was on any other machine, it is still slow by any definition of the word "slow." For the amount of money I paid for this (Scholar Platinum) it should run much faster. When I switch from one layout to the other it runs a little faster than on my other machines, but some other features are actually slower.

When I plan bathroom trips around switching layouts, that means it's too slow.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2011 6:35 PM

Why aren't you running 4.3? It is considerably faster!

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 12:08 AM

Michael R. Jones:
For the amount of money I paid for this (Scholar Platinum) it should run much faster.

Thankful Logos 4 software is free and has been updated many times.

Michael R. Jones:
I've run L4 on Mac and PC in various configs and no matter what, it is slow. I am running 4.2 now on a faster machine than I have ever run it on and though it is faster (in many respects) than it was on any other machine, it is still slow by any definition of the word "slow."

Thankful a Logos 4.2 repeatable slow scrolling issue on Mac was noticeably improved during Logos 4.3 Beta development => Scrolling: Reverse Interlinear Bible, which can be very slow at times

Michael R. Jones:
When I switch from one layout to the other it runs a little faster than on my other machines, but some other features are actually slower.

Please elaborate what other features are slow; would like to try to replicate.  Also wonder if feature usage improves with current Stable release Logos 4.3 SR-3 ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 66
Michael R. Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 6:03 AM

My mistake, guys, I am running 4.3 SR3. Turning off the internet as someone suggested has sped it up but it is still considerably slow.

I'm not sure what Smilin' is talking about. Perhaps he managed to get it for free, but I paid a considerable sum for Scholar's Platinum.

 

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 6:34 AM

Michael - 

What KS4J was trying to say is that the software is free, while the resources are not. In other words, as Logos keeps improving and updating the software, you do not have to pay for it.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 1874
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 8:38 AM

Michael R. Jones:
When I switch from one layout to the other it runs a little faster than on my other machines, but some other features are actually slower.

Michael

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with Logos working way too slow. Changing layouts shouldn't give you time for a comfort stop! (Like you I run Scholars Platinum plus a whole lot of other resources. You can see my iMac spec below my signature.)

You may have hit the nail on the head when you said that changing layouts can speed things up. The speed of a layout change is going to depend to some extent on the complexity of your layout. That is, the number of resources and guides that are opened, the size of passage set in your opening passage guide and/or exegetical guide. In my experience the Exegetical Guide takes a long time to complete and populate if the passage is on the large side (say a chapter or more).

In order to offer more specific advice, I'd be grateful if you could let me know your machine's spec, especially its RAM capacity and amount of free space on your hard drive.

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 4GHz; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.12.2; 1TB FD; Logos 7

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.12.2; 256GB SSD; Logos 7

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 10.2

iPhone 5s 32GB iOS 10.2

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