Major Loss to Fortress Paul Collection

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Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:13 PM

I just received an e-mail message from Logos:

We recently learned that we cannot include the following books in the Fortress Press Paul Collection:

* Paul: In Fresh Perspective

This is a major loss.

This collection has been in pre-pub for some time, and Logos is just now figuring out it doesn't have the rights to this important work?  And what about The Anchor Yale Reference Library? This is starting to be a disturbing trend.

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Kent Hendricks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:40 PM

This book is included in the N. T. Wright Collection.

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William | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:58 PM

With all the books that are coming out I am already pressed for finances.  I am not able to afford 300 plus for this book...just leave it in the paul collection

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 5:17 PM

BradN:
 And what about The Anchor Yale Reference Library?

 

??  Huh?  ??

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Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2011 6:10 PM

Kent Hendricks:

This book is included in the N. T. Wright Collection.

I'll bet that I am not alone in responding that the Wright book was the major reason I ordered the Paul Fortress collection.  It seems mighty unfair to move it from a $180 collection to a $320 collection when the $180 collection was just about to be released.  I can't afford both collections; I suspect now I shall purchase neither.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 10:30 AM

BradN:

Kent Hendricks:

This book is included in the N. T. Wright Collection.

I'll bet that I am not alone in responding that the Wright book was the major reason I ordered the Paul Fortress collection.  It seems mighty unfair to move it from a $180 collection to a $320 collection when the $180 collection was just about to be released.  I can't afford both collections; I suspect now I shall purchase neither.

 

I am possibly the only one on the other side of the fence. I want all of N.T. Wright's books even more than the Paul Fortress Collection. I was happy to see it moved to the N.T. Wright Collection.  Now that I hear everyone's concerns I wish it had not been. (I hope to get both sets.)

Maybe Mr Wright & Logos can separate that one title and offer it as a stand alone purchase so everybody can get it.

How about it? Yes

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 10:58 AM

Matthew C Jones:

BradN:

Kent Hendricks:

This book is included in the N. T. Wright Collection.

I'll bet that I am not alone in responding that the Wright book was the major reason I ordered the Paul Fortress collection.  It seems mighty unfair to move it from a $180 collection to a $320 collection when the $180 collection was just about to be released.  I can't afford both collections; I suspect now I shall purchase neither.

 

I am possibly the only one on the other side of the fence. I want all of N.T. Wright's books even more than the Paul Fortress Collection. I was happy to see it moved to the N.T. Wright Collection.  Now that I hear everyone's concerns I wish it had not been. (I hope to get both sets.)

Maybe Mr Wright & Logos can separate that one title and offer it as a stand alone purchase so everybody can get it.

How about it? Yes

 

Hefty thumbs up to both of your posts.  Yes

 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 11:15 AM

BradN:
It seems mighty unfair to move it from a $180 collection to a $320 collection when the $180 collection was just about to be released.  I can't afford both collections; I suspect now I shall purchase neither.

Okay I wasn't going to comment but If you check you will find that it is being offered by a different publisher. It was not move at all just that another publisher(SPCK) is allowing Logos to publish 'Paul: In Fresh Perspective' as part of the Wright collection.

'Paul: In Fresh Perspective' offered in the Fortress Paul collection is no longer available from the publishers(Fortress is NOT giving Logos the go ahead). Sound confusing - Fortress is saying NO while SPCK is saying YES. I may be wrong but I think that is what has happened.

 

Ted

 

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Posts 299
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 11:42 AM

SPCK is the English publisher.  Fortress is the American publisher.

Now, you may be correct that there may be a last minute problem with the rights from Fortress.  But again, how does Logos offer a book in a collection as a pre-pub (for years!) without having secured the rights to the book?  This is the Anchor Yale Reference Library situation all over again. 

 Logos seems to do a poor job in contractually securing the rights to the books it offers.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 11:54 AM

BradN:

This is the Anchor Yale Reference Library situation all over again. 

 Logos seems to do a poor job in contractually securing the rights to the books it offers.

If I understand the AYRL situation correctly. A new guy appointed to the top (Publisher side) wants to take a fresh look at the contract. Of course we don't know the details. Only Logos knows what is happening and I am sure Logos are eager to see the AYRL in their product line.

Ted

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Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 12:35 PM

Ted -- this is not an argument with you so please don't take this the wrong way.

I admit that I am irked by the Fortress Paul Collection (which has lost 3 or so books over the last year) and the AYRL situations.

I am an attorney who has practiced business and contract law for decades.  I have a fairly good idea how businesses work.

Yale Univ. Press (which owns the AYRL) is a big, sophisticated publisher.

A well-drafted contract should clearly delineate the rights and obligations of the contracting parties.

A "new guy" at YUP should not be able to re-negotiate the existing contract between Logos and YUP. 

Of course, admittedly, I don't know all the facts.  But the only conclusion I can draw is that Logos uses a poorly drafted contract.  It appears to offer books (or resources, if you prefer), it does not have firm rights to.

I am a Logos fan.  I have spent a lot of money with Logos to study God's word.  But when things like this happen, I think "what a bunch of amateurs."

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 12:55 PM

BradN:
But when things like this happen, I think "what a bunch of amateurs."

 

. . . maybe they are waiting for a guy like you to step in and help them . . . Free Portfolio for services rendered.  Smile

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Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 6:40 PM

Then Logos should let people know they are looking for help in this area!  People like BradN may all ready have jobs and if Logos needs help it is up to them to find people to work for them.

On the plus side no one is made to pre-order a package and we are given the right to cancel one for any reason. 

In Chirst,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 17 2011 6:43 PM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:

Then Logos should let people know they are looking for help in this area!  People like BradN may all ready have jobs and if Logos needs help it is up to them to find people to work for them.

i was being tongue in cheek.  sorry, forgot the Stick out tongue

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 9:43 AM

BradN:
Of course, admittedly, I don't know all the facts.  But the only conclusion I can draw is that Logos uses a poorly drafted contract.  It appears to offer books (or resources, if you prefer), it does not have firm rights to.

Yes

Of course, given the amount of money they've already spent on developing the AYBRL, and have already waited for half a year to collect from us, I think we can safely assume that this is one mistake they do not intend to redo! For the future, I am more worried about things that cost them money to fix, than about things that cost them money not to fix. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 18 2011 11:08 AM

BradN:
A "new guy" at YUP should not be able to re-negotiate the existing contract between Logos and YUP.

That is the point that worries me most. I have seen a lot of titles languish in Pre-Pub for lack of interest. We even lost The Samaritan Pentateuch and Crum's Coptic Dictionary. But having an indefinite delay on a popular collection for an issue like a "new guy" decides unilaterally not to honor the commitment of previous administrations shakes my confidence in all projects under development.

Доверяй, но проверяй   -- Ronald Reagan, quoting an old Russian proverb

Ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω ὑμᾶς ὡς πρόβατα ἐν μέσῳ λύκων· γίνεσθε οὖν φρόνιμοι ὡς οἱ ὄφεις καὶ ἀκέραιοι ὡς αἱ περιστεραί    -- Jesus Christ  Matthew 10:16

Aland, Barbara ; Aland, Kurt ; Black, Matthew ; Martini, Carlo M. ; Metzger, Bruce M. ; Wikgren, Allen: The Greek New Testament. 4th ed. Federal Republic of Germany : United Bible Societies, 1993, c1979, S. 24

        


 

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Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 30 2011 6:39 AM

Mr. DeVilder,

If Logos has trouble securing competent legal counsel with the money it makes, then perhaps they need to review their internal legal needs since this, I would think, would be a major tenet of the success of their business.

If they are getting this wrong, then many other things likely are wrong of a less sensitive nature.

I doubt they are going to come to the forums for good help (albeit the music group Journey did use Youtube for their latest lead singer).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 30 2011 1:13 PM

Pat Flanakin:
If Logos has trouble securing competent legal counsel with the money it makes, then perhaps they need to review their internal legal needs since this, I would think, would be a major tenet of the success of their business.

We are missing one major/crucial piece of information - what rights the author has and what rights the publisher has. It would be quite possible, especially for things that languish in pre-pub, for the publisher's rights to expire or to be transferred or for expected extensions to never materialize.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 31 2011 4:27 PM

I am pretty new to the L4 world, but I can't believe that the Samaritan Pentateuch and Crum's Coptic dictionary were once on pre-pub and couldn't gain enough interest.

Am I a weirdo for thinking such...?

How do we ask logos to put them both back onto pre-pub?

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 31 2011 4:37 PM

If I remember correctly (I may be wrong), but the Samaritan Pentateuch wasn't pulled for lack of interest. It wasn't even on the prepub page very long.

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