Expositor's Bible Commentary -- Original vs. Revised

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 4:41 AM

Josh:
Logos carries the old ISBE still. However, maybe you're correct.

Do you mean the The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1915 Edition, on community pricing?

Josh:
I would be shocked if this happened

The question you have to ask yourself… Do the publishers still print the old versions? For some resources, yes. For some, for a limited time only. For many, no. My guess is that these fall into the middle  category. Logos might not be able to sell the old ones once the new ones are available, per publishers request. It may also be that this will happen very quickly. I have no insider knowledge, but I could speculate about something… The product page says that the discount  "expires May 15, 2012." It may be that this resource will be on a (seemingly) very short development cycle, because work had already begun on it.

Again, my speculations with Logos have often been VERY wrong. Big Smile

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Frank Fenby | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 6:51 AM

I think the pricing is being driven by Zondervan and not Logos. Over time and for many reasons, I get less and less interested in Zondervan titles.

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 1:27 PM

alabama24:

The question you have to ask yourself… Do the publishers still print the old versions? For some resources, yes. For some, for a limited time only. For many, no. My guess is that these fall into the middle  category. Logos might not be able to sell the old ones once the new ones are available, per publishers request. It may also be that this will happen very quickly. I have no insider knowledge, but I could speculate about something… The product page says that the discount  "expires May 15, 2012." It may be that this resource will be on a (seemingly) very short development cycle, because work had already begun on it.

 

I can certainly understand this for dead tree products, but we are in a new era. There is nothing to print for electronic titles. It wouldn't cost Zondervan very much (if anything) to keep this resource alive. I'm not convinced that the revised editions make the original editions irrelevant - even if there is some overlap.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 1:45 PM

Josh:
It wouldn't cost Zondervan very much (if anything) to keep this resource alive.

It would cost Zondervan the most important thing to them… Sales of the newer, more profitable edition!

Josh:
I'm not convinced that the revised editions make the original editions irrelevant - even if there is some overlap.

I understand your position, and am not trying to argue that it should be one way or the other, but rather to explain to you why your argument probably doesn't make sense to the publisher. Tongue Tied

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Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 2:41 PM

I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.

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Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2012 7:57 PM

Whyndell Grizzard:

I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.

I agree. I am in the same situation: I would love this revised edition, but it is just too expensive.

Armin

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 10:16 PM

Would you need to pay out the $275 at once, or is that doable on the time basis? I'm absolutely sure this will be a splendid resource. The EBC sets a great balance for useful material without overwhelming the reader.

The only downside is if they put the NIV 2011as the base text. The NIV was adequate, but I would prefer the scholar to make his own translation.

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Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 10:54 PM

Michael, I don't know if pre-pubs can be financed. I doubt it.

I'm still kicking this around. We have 10 more days to decide. The old set has 10,078 pages. The new has 11,939.  The claim of 60% more content is confusing to me.  

 

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Mathew Voth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 12:00 AM

Don't they mean new content? I.e. old stuff has been replaced...

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 2:01 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.

I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.

Bohuslav

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 4:00 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.

Bohuslav sorry to disappoint you. Basically you already have Carson new entry in the old edition. In the new edition Carson's entry has been revised lightly; I could not tell the difference between the two, reading them side by side. If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 5:52 AM

Ted Hans:

If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.

Ted, you raise for me a good point: what counts as revision?  I think often I expect more revising and rewriting than what is done.  I do see that they have completely new authors in some books, and it would be nice to get some review of them. 

I don't think the set price is bad at all, but it is not one that makes me jump on it when I am counting pennies, especially since it is not a complete rewrite.  that said, I note two things that interest me:

  1. George Guthrie does James.  He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.
  2. RT France does Hebrews.  He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are.  is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?

Peace.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 7:34 AM

Dan DeVilder:

Ted, you raise for me a good point: what counts as revision?  I think often I expect more revising and rewriting than what is done.  I do see that they have completely new authors in some books, and it would be nice to get some review of them. 

I don't think the set price is bad at all, but it is not one that makes me jump on it when I am counting pennies, especially since it is not a complete rewrite.  that said, I note two things that interest me:

  1. George Guthrie does James.  He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.
  2. RT France does Hebrews.  He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are.  is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?

Peace.

Leaving Carson aside, I was Impressed with Mark L. Strauss revision of Walter W. Wessel on Mark in the revised edition, new info added.That also goes for the Luke volume revised by David W. Pao

I am happy with the revised edition and I think it is better than the old ( I have the revised edition in hard copy). On the New Testament I was expecting a much more stronger entry from Andreas Kostenberger but due to limitation of space I did did not think he lived up to his usual standard.

My comment above to Bohuslav was in relation to Carson in particular not a commentary on the revised edition as a whole. I have placed an order (Pre-Pub) for the revised edition and am more than happy with the entries of the new authors assigned for the New Testament.

Dan DeVilder:
George Guthrie does James.  He has done excellent in Hebrews (in multiple sets) and his work in James should be very good.

Yes it is Yes

Dan DeVilder:
RT France does Hebrews.  He is not premill, and most of what I can tell of the old set, the authors are.  is that somewhat of a departure for the set, or does it not matter as much since apocalyptic literature is not in the fore in Hebrews?

Neither was Leon Morris (Amil) who wrote the old edition. I do think that R.T. France work is better than Morris.

Regards

 

 

 

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 8:29 AM

Ted Hans:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I would pass also... if there would not be Jeremiah volume of Dr. Michael Brown... and edited Carson on Matthew... and... well, I have to think. We have 10 days to consider that.

Bohuslav sorry to disappoint you. Basically you already have Carson new entry in the old edition. In the new edition Carson's entry has been revised lightly; I could not tell the difference between the two, reading them side by side. If correction of typo and improved English grammar/sentence for clarity counts as revision, then fine. I hardly could find new information, that is not to say they were none but they could not be easily found. Carson's volume in all honesty should not be considered as a revision.

Thanks Ted for the clarification. I appreciate that. I like Carson's original version very much and don't see any need for revision. To be true I really need (or want?) the Michael Brown's Jeremiah. I really am looking forward to this one. To be true, from the old series I actually use regularly only Carson's Matthew.

Bohuslav

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 10:24 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

I'll pass- even with the discount, its to high- just my opinion, everyone else enjoy.

+1

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Bill


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Scott K | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 3:09 PM

Bought Expositor's when it was a stand-alone Windows product.  Then I "upgraded" ($) to the Logos version for about the same price.  Will pass on paying again (seems like if it has 60% more content, the upgrade price should be 60% of the pre-pub price..  but that's just me).  

It is a quality resource, but I'll remain happy with my old-school version.   

 

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 5:30 PM

If they were willing to change 60% of the content, why not just go ahead a change the other 40% and create a whole new commentary series? I hate to say it, but this reminds me of when a music artist creates an album of past hits and remixes a few songs instead of making a new album. It's about making money.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 6:13 PM

Josh:

If they were willing to change 60% of the content, why not just go ahead a change the other 40% and create a whole new commentary series? I hate to say it, but this reminds me of when a music artist creates an album of past hits and remixes a few songs instead of making a new album. It's about making money.

I have thought that about other "revised" sets, but not in this one.  I think some of the ones that they did not change, like Carson's, are because they are standards and well respected.  (see Bohuslav's comments above). Whereas some of the other sections were not so helpful (Luke, for instance).  It's nice they improved those (if Ted is to be believed . . . and I generally think Ted is a stand-up guy! Wink)  And, generally speaking, what they are charging is not that much for a set, even if improved by 60% instead of 100%.  I just can't afford them right now.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 6:14 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
To be true I really need (or want?) the Michael Brown's Jeremiah.

tell me about that, Bo--what makes it special to you?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Carl Sanders | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2012 6:31 PM

It's not cheap, but in addition to discussing the actual cost, it's worth comparing the comparables in hard copy version (and other ebook options, like Kindle). Amazon offers individual volumes for about $30 per volume (plus or minus a few dollars). That's about $390 or so; Kindle prices are a bit lower, but not nearly as functional as Logos (and not all are currently available, but I'm guessing it would probably be about $325 or so for all of them?). And significantly cheaper used copies won't be around in any quantity for several years, I would guess. The entire set hardcover (available in November on Amazon) will be $454 (so, cheaper to buy the 13 volumes individually, it appears). So, if you're looking at this set, the Logos pricing is actually pretty good. That's assuming a bit, of course.

I, like one of the other posters on this thread, finds Zondervan's pricing strategy (and bundling strategy) makes me unhappy with them and I find myself gravitating to other resources. But it's their company and they can run it as they like. I'm just not sure they have fully figured out ebook pricing and strategy yet. But then, I'm not sure anyone has...I'm thinking about this one and haven't quite decided yet. Since I have the original, with the extra discount I may be able to convince myself!

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