Sheffield Academic Press titles - Yikes! $$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 3 2011 5:09 AM

http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=sheffield+academic+press&start=0&sort=newest&pageSize=60

A bit rich for my blood.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 5:47 AM

Eric Weiss:
            Peace to you, Eric ................    And Always Joy!

Those are extremely high prices!                Indeed!                I truly sympathise.....

               I also very often thank God that I've been with Logos for quite a few years now.  The Community Pricing and Pre-Pub programs have saved me an incredible amount of money.                Especially from individually priced books outside a collection.

                              For example:  Last October - on pre-pub - I received

Studies in New Testament Greek and JSNTS Collection (17 vols.) for 228.79 Canadian now selling for $400 U.S. and having a retail of $377.45 CAD (395.95 USD)* Retail: $2,833.64 CAD Save: $2,456.19 CAD (87%

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 6:02 AM

Eric Weiss:

Yes they are pricey, but most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 7:21 AM

tom collinge:

Eric Weiss:

Yes they are pricey, but most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive.

Most of these are included in certain collections which, while costly in themselves, does bring the per book price down considerably.  E.g. History of Israel's Traditions:  The Heritage of Martin Noth is listed as $180.00.  This comes in the History of Israel collection which is $499.95 but includes 19 volumes which are generally also over-priced as singles.

george
gfsomsel

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 8:23 AM

I think I commented about this phenomena some time back--a classic textbook case of being penny-wise and pound-foolish. Because these are "academic" titles, such as theses (as mentiioned above), the publishers live under a preconception that hardly anyone would ever want to read these titles...except for the tiny number of academics who are in the same field of study. These end-user individuals are under a virtual obligation to buy these titles in order to "keep up with the Joneses", aka stay abreast of the most recent research and be able to list the title in their own bibliographies when their thesis is printed (and sold for an exhorbitant amount). In many cases publishers must attempt to make up their printing costs (often fewer than 100-1000 copies total) from the tiny pool of persons interested, most of whom get their university's department or library to make the purchase. Therefore, under the belief that there is only a limited amount of interest and an obligation to purchase, price gouging is de rigueur.

Obviously, the publishers are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy--the ridiculous prices keep non-obligated individuals from ever considering these items unless they are part of a larger package deal. Truth is, much of this stuff is deadly dull, and not having it in your library is a blessing. But some is worthy of attention even if it isn't "worth" purchasing. The prices are absurd.

Of course, you would think that people with the gumption to spend years studying a subject and bothering to get it published would actually WANT a larger number of people to read the fruit of their labors. Ain't gonna happen at the current traditional price-point. And don't expect this to change anytime soon. This is a modus operandi that will only pass into well-deserved oblivion after the egalitarianism of the digital age has nearly left these ivory tower types in the dust of history. They simply don't recognize their is an interested market of individuals who might purchase these times if offered at a resonable price.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 8:34 AM

David Paul:

Obviously, the publishers are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy--the ridiculous prices keep non-obligated individuals from ever considering these items unless they are part of a larger package deal. Truth is, much of this stuff is deadly dull, and not having it in your library is a blessing. But some is worthy of attention even if it isn't "worth" purchasing. The prices are absurd.

I'll agree about the prices, but what is "deadly dull" depends upon the reader.  If you have an interest in the field it can be quite fascinating.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 8:34 AM

I don't know how many buyers of these there would be at Logos, but wouldn't the publisher get the same benefit from selling 10 copies @$9 each versus 1 copy at $90, or 15 copies @$12 each versus 1 copy at $180? I might be willing to on occasion splurge $50 on a collection of several related theses titles, but there is no way I'd buy sight-unseen some possibly soporific and arcane and overly-technical dissertation for $150.

Sheffield Academic Press, can you hear us?

I remember when I first started taking Greek in the 1990s that I was browsing at the DTS bookstore and Buist Fanning's book on Verbal Aspect was $125!!!! Needless to say, it was way, way, way down on my list of possible future purchases, and I still don't own it.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 8:54 AM

Eric Weiss:
there is no way I'd buy sight-unseen some possibly soporific and arcane and overly-technical dissertation for $150.

Zzzzzzzzz.  Where's my credit card?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 10:26 AM

I really hate to bring it up now (it is too late to take advantage of it) but,

Logos did broker a magnificent deal on many academic titles and offered 2010 volumes for $1 each.

 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27683/208253.aspx#208253

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 10:37 AM

Matthew C Jones:

I really hate to bring it up now (it is too late to take advantage of it) but,

Logos did broker a magnificent deal on many academic titles and offered 2010 volumes for $1 each.

 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27683/208253.aspx#208253

Which reminds me of something.  After the gold collection they added the platinum collection and then the portfolio collection.  In view of the amazing increase in the price of gas (oil), is the next collection going to be the oil collection?  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 11:22 AM

George Somsel:
After the gold collection they added the platinum collection and then the portfolio collection.  In view of the amazing increase in the price of gas (oil), is the next collection going to be the oil collection?  Big Smile

That is a crude joke. Wink   I can see the ad campaigns now:

  • "Get your anointing, with the new Oil base package." (too similar to Olive Tree??)
  • "Give me Oil in my lamp!"  (too similar to Accordance??)
  • The Zen Collection (meaning "all-encompassing" = too Buddhist??)
  • Pearl of Great Price (umm, too Mormon??)
  • I would prefer they call it Kryptonite (for the comic book generation)
  • The Lasagna Collection (in honor of what really drives the company! Big Smile )

back on topic: I don't think Logos can get any cheaper than $1 per book. Last Christmas was an example of how the volume purchasing has to work. No cafeteria plans, no tailoring, just one-size-fits-all.  Praiser made an extraordinary effort to convince everyone. I am curious to know how many users took up the 2010 Christmas Master Collection offer.  Although that special is now part of history, we still have the Community Pricing program.

 

 

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Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 11:57 AM

David Paul:
Because these are "academic" titles, such as theses (as mentiioned above), the publishers live under a preconception that hardly anyone would ever want to read these titles...except for the tiny number of academics who are in the same field of study. These end-user individuals are under a virtual obligation to buy these titles in order to "keep up with the Joneses", aka stay abreast of the most recent research and be able to list the title in their own bibliographies when their thesis is printed (and sold for an exhorbitant amount). In many cases publishers must attempt to make up their printing costs (often fewer than 100-1000 copies total) from the tiny pool of persons interested, most of whom get their university's department or library to make the purchase. Therefore, under the belief that there is only a limited amount of interest and an obligation to purchase, price gouging is de rigueur.

That's not exactly the case. Academic publishers do not view their market as the "end-user individual." Rather they view the market for these monographs as the academic research library that (in theory) has the budge to pay these kinds of amounts.

David Paul:
Obviously, the publishers are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy--the ridiculous prices keep non-obligated individuals from ever considering these items unless they are part of a larger package deal. Truth is, much of this stuff is deadly dull, and not having it in your library is a blessing. But some is worthy of attention even if it isn't "worth" purchasing. The prices are absurd.

Yes and no. My own print library is full of a couple hundred volumes like these which will never make it into Logos because they're not biblical studies--they're either technical linguistics or Classical, Medieval and Modern Greek. I'm not "obligated" to buy them, but I do consider them worth their price. Though I try to buy used when I can. And many who are interested in these books but don't want to actually buy them will receive free review copies for journal reviews (or sometimes even blogs, as I have done on occasion, myself).

David Paul:
This is a modus operandi that will only pass into well-deserved oblivion after the egalitarianism of the digital age has nearly left these ivory tower types in the dust of history. They simply don't recognize their is an interested market of individuals who might purchase these times if offered at a resonable price.

Don't count on it. As long as their primary buyers are libraries rather than people, the cost will still be high. It'll just change from print to digital subscriptions (e.g ebrary.com).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 3 2011 12:34 PM

tom collinge:
Yes they are pricey, but most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive.

Don't know about the thesis biy buy hsving spent $95 for a Old Turkic-German  dictionary in the mid 1970's, these prices look downright reasonable.  In fact, every book has looked reasonable after that purchase.Stick out tongue

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 8:22 AM

tom collinge:
most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive

??? Possibly in the US (I wouldn't know), but certainly not everywhere. I've never noticed Swedish theses being substantially more expensive than other books in the same area. Actually, they're probably more likely to be cheaper, since they're usually printed by the university in the simplest possible manner and sold for little more than the printing cost. And not so long ago it was, in fact, compulsory to have free copies distributed to anyone who turned up for the defense. That's probably not too common any more, but on the other hand it's getting fairly common to have the file for free on the internet, for anyone to print out for themselves. 

David Paul:
often fewer than 100-1000 copies total

Seriously? American theological theses are printed in as small, or even smaller, editions than Swedish theological theses? The US has something like 33 times as many inhabitants as Sweden, and supposedly a far larger proportion that's interested in theology. Plus a language that can be read by most of the theology-interested world. And you can't even sell a thousand copies of a thesis? What am I missing here?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 8:30 AM

fgh:
What am I missing here?

Could it be students in the USA have to pay for seminary?   http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/society/education/higher.html

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 9:52 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Could it be students in the USA have to pay for seminary?   http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/society/education/higher.html

Never heard of that site, nor the people behind it. By the looks of it some rather old, biased and not totally accurate information.

That said, of course education is free. I fail to see, however, what that has to do with how many copies are printed of a thesis.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 10:06 AM

fgh:
of course education is free. I fail to see, however, what that has to do with how many copies are printed of a thesis.

Most theology students in the USA barely have the funds to enroll in school much less have the extra funds to buy academic publications.

Just ask the many students who use Logos software.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 10:12 AM

Concerning the new Oil Collection,  'They who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil.' (from the Logos blog's writeup on the newly annouced collection). Also note that half of the participants were wise in the early purchase of the collection. The other half, though having 'the Gold', were unable to 'trade-up'.


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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 12:02 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Most theology students in the USA barely have the funds to enroll in school much less have the extra funds to buy academic publications.

Again, what does that have to do with the number of copies? It's hardly students that buy theses. It's people with salaries. Students buy course books and basic reference works, very seldom specialized works like theses.

Futhermore, you seem to live under some assumption that Swedish students are richer than American. From everything I've read and seen, it's the opposite. Most American students seem to be supported by their parents. All Swedish students I've known would have died of shame taking money from their family. At that age you're supposed to take care of yourself in this country, not live off someone else like a child. And it's not like food and lodging and books and computers cost any less just because tuition is free. In fact, lots of American students even seem to be rich enough to have cars. That's virtually unheard of in this country, unless we're talking about an older student with a working spouse. These days most students probably don't even have a driving licence.

Plus we have nothing like your all-costs-covered scholarships. If you manage to get a scholarship here, it's probably no more than a couple of hundred dollars. So, while I don't doubt that there are American students poorer than what you'd generally see here, there's also a huge number of American students who can sail through college without anything like the debts we accumulate here. Swedish students all tend to live under about the same financial conditions: not directly poor, but definitely not rich either. And it all has to be paid off afterwards, one way or another.

Matthew C Jones:
Just ask the many students who use Logos software.

Don't know any (outside of these forums).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 1:28 PM

fgh:
Again, what does that have to do with the number of copies?

Let me restate my point. Forgetting whether we talk of Americans, Swedes, Japanese or Australians,
MOST people who seem to care about spiritual things tend to lack material goods they can trade for the pursuit.

fgh:
At that age you're supposed to take care of yourself in this country, not live off someone else like a child

I see no difference in living off one's parents or living off the government.  Neither is independent.
( and, I am afraid your perception of the "rich Americans" is misguided. Many  like myself, make less than Sweden's national average.) Three of my children have graduated Bible college without even one dollar from grants, scholarships or my money.

fgh:
It's hardly students that buy theses. It's people with salaries

Many religious schools in the USA are under-funded ministries and do not compensate their professors well enough for them to afford buying lots of theological journals. Most Bible professors I know teach because it is a calling to them. They could command much higher salaries in secular institutions. They tend to keep up on their reading of peer publications in the library (for free.)

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