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Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 11 2011 6:08 PM

http://www.cnet.com.au/apple-policy-forces-iflow-ebook-app-to-shut-down-339314907.htm

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 11 2011 6:54 PM

Hmmm. Every time I sell myself on the idea of getting an iPad another big negative sways me not to.

Will this development have any effect for Logos on iPad?

So, how is the Logos Android app coming along? Big Smile

 

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 11 2011 7:02 PM

If Apple goes through with this, there will be a lot of used iPads on eBay on July 1st!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 11 2011 8:15 PM

Tony Thomas:

If Apple goes through with this, there will be a lot of used iPads on eBay on July 1st!

Remote desktop connection apps on iPad may become quite useful.

Reading https://www.iflowreader.com/Closing.aspx was informative about publisher agency model.  Noticed business model is bit different than Logos.

Thankful for "Bible +" iOS update by Logos Bible Software; not know what to expect soon (e.g. July 1st).

Couple threads have older observations and speculations => If in app purchasing added to iOS app, wonder about Logos resource licensing change ? and No more access to purchased content

Matthew C Jones:

Hmmm. Every time I sell myself on the idea of getting an iPad another big negative sways me not to.

Will this development have any effect for Logos on iPad?

So, how is the Logos Android app coming along? Big Smile

Reading about Google's in-app billing (IAB) for Android => http://mashable.com/2011/04/20/android-in-app-purchasing/ noticed: "Don’t grumble about the fees that Google or Apple will take from the transaction. These markets offer distribution to an enormous audience, and is well worth the 30% revenue share"

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2011 5:19 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

"Don’t grumble about the fees that Google or Apple will take from the transaction. These markets offer distribution to an enormous audience, and is well worth the 30% revenue share"

And I thought that the 3% that the credit cards collect on every transaction was high.  1/3 of the final sellers markup maybe but 1/3 of the price?? [Or have they killed the goose that lays the golden eggs?]  [What is next? if you use ''them'' to go to a web site to buy anything do they want a cut of that sale too?]

EDIT ADD MORE

Please RE READ ALL POST IN THIS THREAD – did I miss something –  from what I THINK I see in this thread is that BOTH Apple (ipad & iphone) and Google (Android) want to COLLECT 30% on each Ebook sale for any APP running on their operating systems.  Will there be any E-readers on them after July 1??  [Have they killed the goose that lays the golden eggs or do they just want all of the action for themselves?]  [Will they see Logos as an E-reader?? And if they do will they NOT allow Logos on the phones because Logos sells books for PC / MAC that might also be read on the phones?]  [Are they trying to get back to the pay for use on every system you read the book on? [one license for each cpu you use it on and not the Logos plan of one license per user and use it on all of the cpu’s you own] [where one cpu is one computer or one phone or one other device]]

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Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2011 5:31 AM

Tony Thomas:

 

Matthew C Jones:

Hmmm. Every time I sell myself on the idea of getting an iPad another big negative sways me not to.

Will this development have any effect for Logos on iPad?

So, how is the Logos Android app coming along? Big Smile

And I was getting all set to order an iPad. This reminded me of Apple's pulling the Manhatten Declaration app and the Exodus app. There is a totalitarian control that seems intrinsic to Apple that really bothers me. The primary reason I would hold my nose and buy an iPad is Logos 4. I think I'll wait a bit and see how the Android app comes along.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 406
Fred Greco | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2011 6:54 AM

I think it is just a matter of time before the Justice Department Anti-Trust division comes down hard and buries Apple on this. If the folks at Cupertino think that they have more resources and hope than Redmond, they are kidding themselves.

I would not be surprised if a few years from now a settlement is made that requires Apple to sync Androids with iTunes and carry Android apps in the App Store.

Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 12 2011 7:44 PM

David Ames:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

"Don’t grumble about the fees that Google or Apple will take from the transaction. These markets offer distribution to an enormous audience, and is well worth the 30% revenue share"

And I thought that the 3% that the credit cards collect on every transaction was high.  1/3 of the final sellers markup maybe but 1/3 of the price?? [Or have they killed the goose that lays the golden eggs?]  [What is next? if you use ''them'' to go to a web site to buy anything do they want a cut of that sale too?]

EDIT ADD MORE

Please RE READ ALL POST IN THIS THREAD – did I miss something –  from what I THINK I see in this thread is that BOTH Apple (ipad & iphone) and Google (Android) want to COLLECT 30% on each Ebook sale for any APP running on their operating systems.  Will there be any E-readers on them after July 1??  [Have they killed the goose that lays the golden eggs or do they just want all of the action for themselves?]  [Will they see Logos as an E-reader?? And if they do will they NOT allow Logos on the phones because Logos sells books for PC / MAC that might also be read on the phones?]  [Are they trying to get back to the pay for use on every system you read the book on? [one license for each cpu you use it on and not the Logos plan of one license per user and use it on all of the cpu’s you own] [where one cpu is one computer or one phone or one other device]]

Apple and Google have their own Book apps with purchasing on devices.  Apple set the 30 % cut for all digital content purchases purchased using Apple devices (includes songs in iTunes); Google copied and Amazon lowered their cut to match Apple.  Also Apple requires in-app content purchase price to be the same or lower than available elsewhere.

Currently not know App store future for non-Apple E-readers after July 1.  Likewise not know Google's plans for non-Google E-reader applications.

Also cognizant Apple action(s) being monitored => http://www.tuaw.com/tag/department+of+justice/

Fred Greco:

I think it is just a matter of time before the Justice Department Anti-Trust division comes down hard and buries Apple on this. If the folks at Cupertino think that they have more resources and hope than Redmond, they are kidding themselves.

I would not be surprised if a few years from now a settlement is made that requires Apple to sync Androids with iTunes and carry Android apps in the App Store.

With over 40 lawsuits about smart phones currently in progress worldwide, have no idea about future rulings and ramifications (including impacts to Logos apps).

Observation: both Apple and Google exercise dominant control over their respective platforms (which is also true for several other companies and corporations, including Microsoft).

Noticed article about Google and Justice Department => http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TEC_GOOGLE_ADVERTISING_INVESTIGATION?SITE=COCAN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 13 2011 4:11 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Keep Smiling Smile

Thanks - [by the way I don't recall seeing a party for you when you crossed the 3000 post mark - a little late but thanks for being you]

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 13 2011 6:26 PM

David Ames:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Keep Smiling Smile

Thanks - [by the way I don't recall seeing a party for you when you crossed the 3000 post mark - a little late but thanks for being you]

Thankful to use God given talent to help others; personally have learned a lot from many forum threads and wiki pages along with using Logos software.

Thankful for friendly Logos forum discussions, Thankful for Logos Bible Study software (multi-platform), Thankful for Logos (company), and Thankful for Logos, the Word (John 1:1-18).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 12:14 AM

Well, my iPad 1 is my only Apple purchase, and I was expecting to maybe buy an iPhone 4 or 5 later this year. Now I'm concerned that even Logos on iPad might be at risk. Not that Apple is looking here in this forum, but if they mess up eBooks, they wont get much more money from me. For that matter, I would spend less with Logos if I can't read them on my iPad. Voting with my Credit Card!!!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 1:26 AM

Apologies: crystal ball cloudy; not know about future of non-Apple and non-Google e-book apps (on iOS and Android) after July 1.  If Apple evicts non-Apple e-book apps from their App Store (e.g. Kindle, Kobo, Nook, ...), would leave Apple with the only e-book app that can be used offline on iOS devices, which may be good for Apple's e-book store profits, but bad news for Apple's consumers.  If Apple profit increases by being the primary (only) e-book agent on iOS devices, anticipate Google doing the same thing on Android (possibly including remote deletion of non-Google e-book apps, like Google has already done to malware Android apps).

For business $ profit, Amazon (Kindle), Barnes & Noble (Nook), Borders (Kobo), and Sony (Digital Reader) have same primary e-book agent motive for their respective devices as Apple (iOS) and Google (Android).  Wonder about Microsoft's e-book agent plans for Windows Phone 7.

Hindsight 20/20: appears Apple waited for competitive e-book devices to flourish worldwide before changing app guidelines (avoids some anti-trust issues).

Personally hoping and praying for Logos Bible Software apps on iOS and Android devices, with feature improvement beyond e-book readers.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 1:22 PM

if, again if, Apple is not going to play nicely here, it will not stop your app from working, just that it won't be upgraded....

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 1:26 PM

Rev. Kelly Todd:

if, again if, Apple is not going to play nicely here, it will not stop your app from working, just that it won't be upgraded....

If Apple pulls it from the store, you are just one reset or system upgrade away from losing the app forever.

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PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 1:43 PM

Trying to make sure I understand...  Does the new Apple policy state that apps that sell ebooks MUST sell them through in-app purchase, or they just have to provide in-app purchase as an OPTION?

If the former, that's unreasonable and will drive almost all other ebook sellers out of the Apple app store.

If the latter, then Logos only has to add an in-app purchase option inside the iOS app, and can use marketing techniques to drop customers to buy their ebooks through the Logos website.  Olivetree is basically using this approach (they have frequent sales events but only through their website and not through the in-app book store).

All this discussion is meaningful only IF it's determined that the Logos app falls under Apple's new policy.  Like others have pointed out, Logos is still primarily a desktop PC/Mac app, with a free iOS reader for its users.  Arguably Logos is substantially different from, say, iFlow Reader.  It is, however, similar to Kindle, Kobo, etc. -- Users purchase ebooks primarily for other devices, it just happens that they also offer a free reader for iOS for convenience.

Peter

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 14 2011 4:26 PM

Peter Li:
Trying to make sure I understand...  Does the new Apple policy state that apps that sell ebooks MUST sell them through in-app purchase, or they just have to provide in-app purchase as an OPTION?

Page 4 of  No more access to purchased content discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/29373.aspx?PageIndex=4 includes:

"Apple wants to create convenient electronic store for all digital content using Apple mobile devices that has over 100,000,000 million shoppers.  If consumer choses easy one click purchase in-app on Apple device, then Apple wants 30 % of new purchase revenue.  If consumer chooses to purchase externally, Apple gets nothing (while consumer can download new purchase to Apple device).  Apple wants all iOS content applications to have same or better pricing as external store along with prohibiting iOS content applications from linking to external web site on iOS device.  Also, Apple can block digital content from being downloaded to iOS application that does not offer in app purchasing (started this thread)."

Apple's press release on February 15, 2011 => http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html includes subscription (content) philosophy:

“Our philosophy is simple—when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app. We believe that this innovative subscription service will provide publishers with a brand new opportunity to expand digital access to their content onto the iPad, iPod touch and iPhone, delighting both new and existing subscribers.”

Page 5 of  No more access to purchased content discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/29373.aspx?PageIndex=5 includes Apple public confirmation on Tuesday February 16, 2011:

"Later Tuesday, Apple spokeswoman Trudy Muller confirmed that those rules apply not only to newspaper and magazine publishers, but also to content sellers like Amazon.com, which offers a Kindle app for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad."

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 30 2011 12:55 PM

Apple changed the requirements for 'In-App Purchases", requiring them to sell the "app" for the same amount as it cost in the iTunes App store.  This was due to many App developers were putting a free 'Lite" version on the iTunes store.  After the person downloaded the free app, and since it was 'free' Apple was paid nothing for providing a portal for these developer's apps.  After the person started using this 'Lite' version they would be able to do an 'In-App Purchase' upgrade.  Because Apple's rules never specifically included 'In-App' purchasing as part of their iTunes business model, they were forced to revise this specific issue.  Many of the App Developers were using the 'Lite Version' with 'In-App' purchase option to get around paying Apple its portion.  The "Lite Version" concept was created by Apple to encourage developers to let customers try their product before purchasing the full App, However, MANY App Developers abused this system and it has created this new process.  Also, Apple's requirement that the product they sell must cost the same via iTunes or In-App purchase as it does via other providers, primarily directed at eBook providers Amazon & Barnes/Nobles due to they were charging more for a book purchased via their iPhone/iPad Apps then what it cost to purchase directly from Amazon.  Apple changed this policy to keep them from this practice.  Whether anyone agrees with the percentage Apple takes, everyone should look at it from the perspective that Apple is bringing an entire market of potential customers to these 'App Developers' and anyone who purchase an iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad, you already know you have to use their software (iTunes) to utilize these products.  It is no different from Logos, which developed a software platform, which they require any resources you wish to use with it must be purchased via Logos.

As far as the new guidelines affecting Logos, it should not affect their Apps.  Logos' Apps are classified as a 'Portal' to a 'Parent' software program and not an 'ebook' reader and that the products they sell are unique and specific to that 'Parent' software program and Logos does not sell 'ebooks' outside of this specific 'Parent' software.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 30 2011 1:43 PM

Sounds like unscrupulous sellers on eBay who sell a $30 item for $3 and charge $50 S&H to get around paying seller fees.  But Apple's response is also heavy-handed. Requiring compliance with a price-fixing scheme is illegal.  Even doing it voluntarily is illegal. We saw similar monopoly & extortion  in eBay's requiring all transactions be paid for through PayPal after eBay bought out PP.    

The love of money is the root of all evil.   

Jerry Mott:
As far as the new guidelines affecting Logos, it should not affect their Apps.  Logos' Apps are classified as a 'Portal' to a 'Parent' software program and not an 'ebook' reader and that the products they sell are unique and specific to that 'Parent' software program and Logos does not sell 'ebooks' outside of this specific 'Parent' software.

That is encouraging, unless the Vyrso release makes Apple fight dirty.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 30 2011 2:14 PM

Peter Li:

<<A>>  If the former, that's unreasonable and will drive almost all other ebook sellers out of the Apple app store.

<<B>>  If the latter, then Logos only has to add an in-app purchase option inside the iOS app, and can use marketing techniques to drop customers to buy their ebooks through the Logos website.  <<C>> Olivetree is basically using this approach (they have frequent sales events but only through their website and not through the in-app book store).

<A> that may be the intent of Apple.  And drop the 'almost'.  If you read a book on iApple then they seem to want you to buy it through Apple.

<B> part of the policy states that the price in the App Store can not be more then the sale price elsewhere - By by App when Apple sees the web price.

<C> Will Olivetree (or anyone else) be able to continue that policy? 

Logos is the leader in Buy once use everywhere - all others are Buy it for each platform you read it on.  Yes, you can read nook and kindle books on the PC but only by using the PC program that THEY provided so that they could sell you ebooks before you bought their device.

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 30 2011 2:50 PM

Jerry Mott:
Apple changed the requirements for 'In-App Purchases", requiring them to sell the "app" for the same amount as it cost in the iTunes App store.  This was due to many App developers were putting a free 'Lite" version on the iTunes store.  After the person downloaded the free app, and since it was 'free' Apple was paid nothing for providing a portal for these developer's apps.  After the person started using this 'Lite' version they would be able to do an 'In-App Purchase' upgrade.

 

I see where this makes sense and Apple should be able to stop developers from using the Apple App store as a free place to sell their products.  This is a tough situation to sort out none the less!

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