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Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 17 2011 8:21 PM

I am going to purchase an SSD for my Mac Pro Server for the purpose of Logos 4 Databases.

How do I direct Logos 4 to intall and update my resources and programs on a particular drive?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 2:17 AM

Unlike PC, Logos 4 Mac installation does not have custom option to specify resource location.

Wondering if plan to use Stable or Beta channel updates ?

If Stable version, then suggest installing Mac OS X on Solid State Disk (SSD), then boot up SSD followed by Stable Logos 4 Mac installation (potentially could use => Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs ideas)

Wiki page Logos 4 Beta Program has information and risks.

If using Beta version, have couple ideas.  While researching a crash issue, relocated my Logos library to a different partition (non-standard configuration, which is like Beta version for technical support => Mac Beta forum discussions).  After crash issue fixed, later undid Logos library relocation.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 18 2011 11:34 AM

Currently booting from an SSD on Mac OSX and Mac Pro Server is risky at best. Also the cards to support that solution is expensive. Consider this a request to enhance Mac Version of Logos4 to include custom installation location(s). Should not be difficult to support that. It's pretty basic.

 

Thanks

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 19 2011 1:51 AM

Larry Good:
Currently booting from an SSD on Mac OSX and Mac Pro Server is risky at best.

Observation: current MacBook Air models all boot Mac OS X from internal SSD.  Also many MacBook Pro and iMac models have configure to order SSD (replace hard disk).

By the way, earlier this year was reading about enterprise class SSD's for use in blade servers.

Larry Good:
Consider this a request to enhance Mac Version of Logos4 to include custom installation location(s).

Option: create Mac OS X user for Logos 4 Mac use, then change Mac OS X user's home directory to SSD => http://nunojob.wordpress.com/2007/12/27/mac-os-x-leopard-tips-change-your-home-directory-to-a-different-partition/

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 19 2011 10:40 AM

Thanks for the observation, but I have neither a macbook air, macbook pro, I have a Mac Pro Server. Big difference. They do not support boot from SSD

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 12:04 AM

Larry Good:

I am going to purchase an SSD for my Mac Pro Server for the purpose of Logos 4 Databases.

How do I direct Logos 4 to intall and update my resources and programs on a particular drive?

It's easy, if you approach it a different way and think outside the box.

I am running my Logos 4 with the whole database (not the application at this time) on an SSD on a Mac Pro.

Instead of trying to do all manner of fiddly things to try and get Logos to install into an alternate folder from the default which is this,

 ~/Libary/Application Support/Logos4 

On the Mac (which is at heart a Unix machine) simply use a soft symbolic link 

 lrwxr-xr-x   1 Patrick  staff     20 Dec 29 17:15 Logos4 -> /Volumes/SSD/Logos4/ 

I have had it running that way since Christmas (when I got the SSD drive Yes)

How to do:

  1. Install the SSD drive of course
  2. Make sure NO Logos programs (main or indexer) are running
  3. If you have existing Logos install rename the ~/Libary/Application Support/Logos4 folder to something else. Being cautious I did not delete it because if everything fails you can simply go back to the original (data) installation
  4. Make a folder called 'Logos4' on the SSD drive. I put mine in the root
  5. In terminal (you need to be reasonably comfortable using terminal and Unix command prompt) go to folder ~/Libary/Application Support. The " ~"  means your home folder.
  6. Make a soft symbolic link to the folder on SSD.

To make a symbolic link use the 'ln' command (you can search for details on the command), it will have this syntax

 ln -s /existing/directory /sym/link/to/that/dir 

For my case, from the ~/Libary/Application Support folder, I executed this command

 ln -s Logos4 /Volumes/SSD/Logos4 

It is "/Volumes/SSD/" because that is how OS X refers to the mount points of storage devices, they are all listed in the folder "/Volumes".

It's not hard.

I didn't do it from initial installation so can't comment on that, it should work that if you create the folder on the SSD drive and the symbolic link that Logos installer will see the existing folder (and not create it again) and install the data files onto the SSD drive, but again don't have direct experience.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 13143
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 1:36 AM

For technically inclined, discussion can include link (soft vis hard), hdiutil attach, and mount along with relocating home directory.  Also likely to mention Wiki page Mac Troubleshooting => Logos 4 Mac Indexer Automatic Launch section since turning off automatic launch of Indexer during login may be helpful.

Patrick S.:

For my case, from the ~/Libary/Application Support folder, I executed this command

 ln -s Logos4 /Volumes/SSD/Logos4 

It is "/Volumes/SSD/" because that is how OS X refers to the mount points of storage devices, they are all listed in the folder "/Volumes".

Caution: example symbolic link can be broken by accidently renaming SSD volume (i.e. link path is not updated if volume renamed).

If want Logos Technical Support to provide stable Logos 4 Mac assistance using remote connection, manually relocating Logos4 folder not recommended.

Larry Good:
Consider this a request to enhance Mac Version of Logos4 to include custom installation location(s).

Wonder about Logos supported utility to relocate Logos 4 folder ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 2:18 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

For technically inclined, discussion can include link (soft vis hard)

This technically inclined advises that... hard links are not supported.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

For technically inclined... Wiki page Mac Troubleshooting

Who maintains this Wiki, can anyone add content?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Caution: example symbolic link can be broken by accidently renaming SSD volume (i.e. link path is not updated if volume renamed).

Yarrr - Prov. 22:13. How often do you go renaming volumes Stick out tongue Also if someone has done something at this level they're going to know what they are doing.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 13143
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 4:24 AM

Patrick S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

For technically inclined, discussion can include link (soft vis hard)

This technically inclined advises that... hard links are not supported.

Time Machine (Mac OS X Leopard) uses hard links => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=3

Patrick S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

For technically inclined... Wiki page Mac Troubleshooting

Who maintains this Wiki, can anyone add content?

Many Logos volunteers and some employees create/maintain Logos Wiki pages (virtual collaboration) that may include forum discussions and/or email about wiki content and improvement ideas.

Thanks to Steve Clark for creating wiki Template1 page with example formatting information (after my initial wiki content editing had many opportunities for improvement).

Have learned to edit wiki content, then use "Preview" button to check page information and formatting before saving (similar to using Preview for forum reply before posting).

Patrick S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Caution: example symbolic link can be broken by accidently renaming SSD volume (i.e. link path is not updated if volume renamed).

Yarrr - Prov. 22:13. How often do you go renaming volumes Stick out tongue Also if someone has done something at this level they're going to know what they are doing.

Over many years, have experienced a few volume rename issues (sometimes self-inflicted mistakes), learned to use ls and grep to list all symbolic links, then fixed broken ones using rm and ln commands.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 4:46 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Patrick S.:

This technically inclined advises that... hard links are not supported.

Time Machine (Mac OS X Leopard) uses hard links => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=3

Yarrr - nice piece of information, but not relevant as we are talking about folders, and hard links are not supported for folders, only files.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 13143
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 5:05 AM

Patrick S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Patrick S.:

This technically inclined advises that... hard links are not supported.

Time Machine (Mac OS X Leopard) uses hard links => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=3

Yarrr - nice piece of information, but not relevant as we are talking about folders, and hard links are not supported for folders, only files.

Living and learning (can hard link folders in Mac OS X) => http://stackoverflow.com/questions/80875/what-is-the-bash-command-to-create-a-hardlink-to-a-directory-in-os-x

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 5:23 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Patrick S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Patrick S.:

This technically inclined advises that... hard links are not supported.

Time Machine (Mac OS X Leopard) uses hard links => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=3

Yarrr - nice piece of information, but not relevant as we are talking about folders, and hard links are not supported for folders, only files.

Living and learning (can hard link folders in Mac OS X) => http://stackoverflow.com/questions/80875/what-is-the-bash-command-to-create-a-hardlink-to-a-directory-in-os-x

Yarrr - living and learning the hard way when the C program necessary to do it (and wrongly typed by someone who doesn't know better) fries your HDD. 

Or, as the article you linked to, said about hard links to folders:

Yes it's supported by the kernel and the filesystem, but since it's not intended for general usage it's not exposed to the shell.

You could probably work out which APIs Time Machine uses and wrap them in a commandline tool, but it'd be better to take the hint and steer well-clear.

Which basically says... in this case Prov. 22:13 is wrong, and there really is a lion outside the door.

Apple might have gurus smart enough to go above the Unix core - but I don't think you or I fit into that category. And I'm sure Mr Larry don't wanna go there.

Trust me Larry, "ln -s" is your friend.

 

p.s. Hey this exchange is bumping up my post count. Soon I'll have one of them purty little stars under my name Wink

p.p.s. But KSFJ knows I'm only joshing.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 13143
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 5:43 AM

Patrick S.:
p.s. Hey this exchange is bumping up my post count. Soon I'll have one of them purty little stars under my name Wink

Logos public relations sends email MVP invitations to selected users, which needs positive acceptance before star added (personally 2,077 posts); another MVP had star added with 989 posts.

With Many Volunteer Posts (MVP), Thankful for friendly forum discussions.

Having an optional Logos 4 Mac installer that would allow customized placement of Logos 4 folder could be useful.  Optional installation folder could also include diagnostic logging enabler and disabler apple scripts.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 5:54 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Logos public relations sends email MVP invitations to selected users...

Well drat,  that sinks me, especially if certain Logos staff are on the approvals committee Tongue Tied I ask too many 'uncomfortable' questions.

But I'm still buying Logos titles and am ever hopeful.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Having an optional Logos 4 Mac installer that would allow customized placement of Logos 4 folder could be useful. 

I agree

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

...diagnostic logging enabler and disabler apple scripts.

Now where did I read that...

 

p.s. Into beautiful ancient Christian music? http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/hildegard-von-bingen-canticles/id258630580

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 11:03 AM

I am very technically inclined as I've maintained Massively Parallel Super Computers for Global Fortune 500 companies. I understand the workarounds. What I am focused on is a simple option for users who do not have Unix Admin Skills, Storage Administration Skills, or do not keep up on the latest nuances of Time Machine etc. I'm simple asking for a dialog box for end users so that they can specify installation locations with a drop down box. That's all.

I certainly know the ins/outs of soft/hard links, command lines, etc  and appreciate the efforts to respond.

The logos user base for OS/X should not have to know any of this. If someone down the road installs this according to instructions, what is the chance that they are going to remember this one year down the road when they get a new computer with a different hardware, etc etc.

 

Thanks

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 11:57 AM

Hi - you'll have to forgive KSFJ, he and I have good hearted dueling forums postings from time to time.

You're absolutely right (in both our opinions) I think — it would be nice if Logos built this into the application. We can just trust they see the request.

In the meantime — if you haven't done it and are interested — I can confirm that the way I described works seamlessly and I get about a 10-20% improvement in speed for Logos 4 Mac on my older Mac Pro having the database be on an SSD drive.

Good luck

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 12:01 PM

Patrick, Will do and I am sure I will get benefits.

 

Posts 388
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 8:29 PM

I am still somewhat dumbfounded as to why Logos 4 does not support alternate install locations in OSX. In OSX  HFS has  meta data stored in the directory structure. In fact one of the beauties of OSX is that a proper written application can be under a single tree and you do not have to deal with registry entries etc.

Try  this:

1.Make an alias to a file. Any file, doesn't matter what it is. A document in your Documents folder, or whatever you like.

2. Move the original file. Put it on your desktop or move it to another folder.

The alias will still work. Magical, isn't it? If you try that in Windows, it won't. Make a shortcut to a file on a Windows computer. Move the original. The shortcut is now broken.

This magic works because on an HFS disk, there are two ways to find a file. You can find it by its path or you can find it by its unique number. Either way will work. When you click on an alias, the computer tries to find the file by its path. If it can't, it finds the file by its unique number. Other operating systems resolve links by the file's path only. If you move the file, the path changes and the link breaks.

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 21 2011 10:47 PM

Patrick S.:

You're absolutely right (in both our opinions) I think — it would be nice if Logos built this into the application. We can just trust they see the request.

Posted Suggestion: "Optional Scripts" folder ? in Mac Beta forum.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 709
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 22 2011 9:48 AM

Larry Good:

I am still somewhat dumbfounded as to why Logos 4 does not support alternate install locations in OSX. 

One to take up with Logos Wink

Larry Good:

The alias will still work. Magical, isn't it? If you try that in Windows, it won't. Make a shortcut to a file on a Windows computer. Move the original. The shortcut is now broken.

This magic works because on an HFS disk, there are two ways to find a file. You can find it by its path or you can find it by its unique number. Either way will work. When you click on an alias, the computer tries to find the file by its path. If it can't, it finds the file by its unique number. Other operating systems resolve links by the file's path only. If you move the file, the path changes and the link breaks.

Yep, the inode (or index) number of the file. Functionality which has been in Unix/Linux (and OS X) filesystems since day dot. Just another proof that, even after all this time, Unix/Linux has a better fundamental design and structure than Windows.

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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