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Posts 185
Steve Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 11 2010 9:20 PM

Dave Hooton:

Please note that setting "run as administrator" on the L4 shortcut is not recommended by Logos developers and WILL lead to problems when trying to update L4.

Um, what kind of problems?  Could we run Logos as admin. until program/resource updates are released and switch back as necessary? I'd hate for my layouts to be turned into hash.

Pastor, rural Baptist church

Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9

Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1

 

 

Posts 2
Chris Dixon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 11 2010 9:33 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Starting L4 with 24 tabs (3 visible in parallel panes), with several note files and visual filters running, took less than one minute. Switching tabs takes less than 2 seconds, the first time, for most tabs (some take longer). The second time goes much more quickly. Yes loading the home page does take a long time for me (just loaded it in 15 seconds - so maybe it just seems long), but I almost never look at it anyway.

Thanks for the tips, but the PC is optimized pretty well.  When I said "a long time", I was speaking in relative terms to other software.  Most programs load in just a few seconds and have no delay at all when switching tabs (even the big Microsoft dev studios).  Don't get me wrong... I understand that a lot is going on with each click, but I'm sure it can be improved.  My point for posting in the first place was to make sure people understand that a fast computer is not going to make L4 as responsive as other software.

I should also mention that once I've opened it and run it a few times, the system is much faster (about 10 seconds to open, 2 seconds to go to the home page)  Probably from putting a lot of it in cache.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 11 2010 11:35 PM

Steve:
Um, what kind of problems?

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22452/167718.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/19651.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3539/38467.aspx

etc, etc

Steve:
Could we run Logos as admin. until program/resource updates are released and switch back as necessary? I'd hate for my layouts to be turned into hash.

"run as admin" might already have caused a problem for the next update! Disabling UAC is just as bad (more likely to be done in Vista). Have you seen http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly?

Dave
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 12 2010 8:09 AM

Dave Hooton:
"run as admin" might already have caused a problem for the next update! Disabling UAC is just as bad (more likely to be done in Vista).

I agree that running L4 as administrator may cause some problems (though it hasn't for me). On the other hand, running L4 on a desktop set up to run as an administrator in the Windows environment, does improve L4 performance (I assume you know the difference between these two statements.)

I'm not aware of how disabling UAC can interfere with Logos4 (regardless of the wisdom of doing so). Do you know something I don't?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 488
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 12 2010 10:36 AM

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 12 2010 2:48 PM

Nord Zootman:

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

For some it has caused problems with updating (it hasn't for me). Another issue is with SmartTags (only available in the 4.1 beta, so far). In the discussion about that in the PC beta forum, Logos techs say they do not recommend running Logos4 as an administrator. If there are other reasons that running L4 as administrator is not recommended, please chime in. 

NOTE: This is not the same as running Logos4 from and an "administrator" desktop in Windows. That is supported (and recommended for better performance by most Logos users).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 12 2010 6:36 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Nord Zootman:

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

For some it has caused problems with updating (it hasn't for me). Another issue is with SmartTags (only available in the 4.1 beta, so far). In the discussion about that in the PC beta forum, Logos techs say they do not recommend running Logos4 as an administrator. If there are other reasons that running L4 as administrator is not recommended, please chime in.

Just to be clear (Win 7/Vista):-

  • running L4 in a Windows Administrator account is OK; and
  • running L4 in a Windows 7/Vista Standard user account is also OK, because
  • L4 is designed to install** and run in a Standard user environment (it does not require Admin privileges)
  • Admin accounts run as Standard user accounts (Admin privileges are disabled until required)
  • so if you force L4 to "run as administrator" it can set file permissions that require that level of access!

** Prerequisites requires Admin privilege but not the L4 application!

The most common problems occur when L4 is installed with Admin privilege (see links in previous post).

The impact of UAC seems to be confined to prompting when Admin privilege is required (if turned off you won't know that L4 is running elevated!).

Note: Win XP runs an Admin account with full admin privileges at all times.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 12 2010 6:53 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
NOTE: This is not the same as running Logos4 from and an "administrator" desktop in Windows. That is supported (and recommended for better performance by most Logos users).

I run L4 Beta in a Standard User account on my desktop computer and do not have any performance problems as I compare it against L4 "Gold" running in my Administrator account, all with UAC enabled and not using "Run as administrator"!

Note to Bradley: why not block L4 from running elevated as implied here.

 

Dave
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2010 9:07 AM

Dave Hooton:
I run L4 Beta in a Standard User account on my desktop computer and do not have any performance problems as I compare it against L4 "Gold" running in my Administrator account, all with UAC enabled and not using "Run as administrator"!

But some have reported noticeable improvements running L4 from an administrator desktop. Such reports are anecdotal, but anecdotal evidence suggests something.

Anyway, we've probably beaten this issue as far as we can within the confines of the forum guidelines.

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 23
Craig Broyles | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:20 AM

Deborah Mickens Replied Tue Sep 7, 2010 4:11 PM

frederick harrell:

Logos 4 is the slowest program on both my laptop and desktop - far slower than any of Adobe CS4 stuff (photoshop, flash, illustrator etc.) that used to hold that record on my machine.

Frederick,

Logos 4 is designed for newer computers (within approximately the last year).

Deborah Mickens
Logos Bible Software, Marketing
dmickens@logos.com

 

I'm disappointed in this reply from Logos that "Logos 4 is designed for newer computers (within approximately the last year)"---as a general explanation for the program's slow speed, even for the simplest of operations. When I have to wait and wait for simple operations that were instantaneous in Logos 3 (e.g., to see highlighting appear in an English Bible and to type text in the Notes), I must regard Logos 4 as a setback from Logos 3. Mind you, I have no intention of reverting to Logos 3, but I wish to add my voice to the hundreds on this forum who have patiently requested optimization of Logos 4.

I too find that Logos 4 is the slowest of my programs, including Adobe Photoshop, which performs many complex graphic algorithms. I beg the Logos engineers to get Logos 4 up to speed.

Craig

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2010 3:16 PM

Craig Broyles:
Mind you, I have no intention of reverting to Logos 3, but I wish to add my voice to the hundreds on this forum who have patiently requested optimization of Logos 4.

Welcome to the forums.

While speed and performance has been an issue since the release of L4, I think that the development team at Logos has been focusing most of their resources and time on getting features implemented. Today 4.1RC1 was released and includes some features many users have been requesting since the beginning. Some performance and speed issues have improved since the first release and I think they have been clear that this is a priority as they move forward.

 

Posts 116
Matt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2010 4:15 PM

Just so you don't feel alone Chris, I too have a more than adequate system that is blistering fast with every piece of software other than Logos 4.  If I need to do some basic bible research, I don't use Logos, I use Google because with the delays in the various boxes appearing, the windows taking a long time to populate etc., I can get it done much more quickly with Google.  I keep hoping that each successive service release will improve the performance, but it doesn't look like it has from not only my own experience, but from various reports I've read.  I was really hopeful about 4.1, but I saw in the beta forums that numerous beta testers have seen the more recent 4.1 betas result in slower and slower performance, so I'll just have to wait and see.  It would be nice if Logos would take these performance issues seriously and stop attempting to blame the end-user's computer.

Here are some simple metrics that I just ran on my machine:

  • Logos launch time from the time I clicked on the icon to launch until the home page was fully loaded and rendered
    • 59 seconds
  • Time for a Search Panel to appear after I click on the Search Panel icon
    • 1-2 seconds
  • Time for a bible to open to the chapter and verse specified in the command line 'esv rm 7:18'
    • 15 seconds
  • Time for the parallel resource sets drop-down list to populate after I click on them within the now open bible
    • 15 seconds

It had been at least a few days to a week since I had launched Logos 4.  The same trend existed/exists in the Mac version.  In the alpha versions in the early part of this year, it was much faster for basic things than the 'finished' Windows product.  As they continued to glop features on, it too experienced dramatic falloffs in performance to the point where I could not tell the difference between Logos on the Mac or the PC.

I'm sure that for some people, those times are no problem.  For me, as I said, it's faster to go to use google.  This is most definitely *not* a problem of optimization or my system specs being too low, unless Logos 4 requires optimizations that no other software does.  I would really like to see Logos make a commitment to decreasing the latency in very basic operations.

Matt

 

Specs:

  • Windows 7 x64
  • Quad Xeon 2.83 GHz x2
  • 16GB RAM
  • Nvidia 285 GTX 1GB VRAM
  • Logos 4.1 Platinum, SR-3, indexed
    Posts 3
    Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 20 2010 2:17 PM

    I too am extremely upset with logos 4.   Change is not better.  Didn't we learn that in the last election.

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    MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 20 2010 4:23 PM

    Have you all tried the help in http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly  ? And, please, this was the ONLY place I could get away from politics Crying

    Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

    Posts 4508
    Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 20 2010 5:05 PM

     I guess I'm weird.

    My machine (older core duo) runs logos 4 great.

    I just posted on another thread that the beta is snappier than ever....go figure.

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

    Posts 763
    David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 20 2010 7:09 PM

    This post is not going to make me popular in Bellingham, but I suggest that Logos should take those quad processor beasts away from the developers and replace them with 4 year old dual processor systems. 

    When I was running a web site project I blocked attempts by the developers from getting faster machines with larger screens.  If the developers don't feel the "pain" they will not fix the problem.

    The policy at Logos needs to be no machine upgrades until the performance is fixed.

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    Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 20 2010 7:49 PM

    David Egolf:
    This post is not going to make me popular in Bellingham, but I suggest that Logos should take those quad processor beasts away from the developers and replace them with 4 year old dual processor systems. 

    The problem is that my 4 year old laptop (see below) runs L4 acceptably. My desktop quad-core beats it in raw power indexing and searching but the response times for tabs & scrolling resources are not significantly different. In other words, I'm content working with L4 on my laptop!

    Other users have been disappointed with quad-cores/dual-cores having better specs than mine! Mainly with response times changing tabs and layouts, jerky scrolling, slow typing with Notes (I don't use Notes!). Parallel Resources is slow for everybody!

    When the developers go home they probably complain as much as anybodyBig Smile

    There have been some improvements with the latest 4.2 beta - check out the comments on the PC Beta forum.

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 10 & Android 8

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