Bible Search... What does "variations of the word" mean?

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Steve Brannon | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:19 AM

After doing a word search and getting a list of results, I started wondering "Just how does Logos decide what to display in this Bible Results panel?

According to the Help available on the Search Results View, the results include both exact term matches and variations.

My question then becomes, what is a variation?

In my specific case I searched on "elect".  The results included also verses such as Isa 42:1, which includes the phrase "My chosen one".  

I want to ensure that I understand why these other results were included in the search, and conversely why others may have been left out.  Can anyone help?

Steve

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:24 AM

Steve Brannon:

After doing a word search and getting a list of results, I started wondering "Just how does Logos decide what to display in this Bible Results panel?

According to the Help available on the Search Results View, the results include both exact term matches and variations.

My question then becomes, what is a variation?

In my specific case I searched on "elect".  The results included also verses such as Isa 42:1, which includes the phrase "My chosen one".  

I want to ensure that I understand why these other results were included in the search, and conversely why others may have been left out.  Can anyone help?

Steve

Would you explain how you are searching. I'm not quite certain I'm following what you're doing, and so find it difficult to know what results you're looking at. Are you doing a search in English, in Hebrew, in the LXX, running a Bible Word Study, other?

 

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Steve Brannon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:33 AM

I am running a fairly straight forward search using the English language word "elect".  

The top of the search screen says: "Search All Bible Text in Entire Bible in Top Bibles for" (then, on then next line, in the search box), "elect"

Steve

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:40 AM

Steve Brannon:

I am running a fairly straight forward search using the English language word "elect".  

The top of the search screen says: "Search All Bible Text in Entire Bible in Top Bibles for" (then, on then next line, in the search box), "elect"

Steve

I'm not seeing this, yet.

Which Bibles are your "Top Bibles?" (In Grid view, the abbreviations of them will be found on the top of the list, over the different colored boxes.)

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:44 AM

In this case the word 'elect' will have been used in one of your Top Bibles, though the text shown will be from your favourite Bible (which presumably doesn't include the word). If you hover your mouse over the coloured in squares, you'll see the matching verses. The hollow squares means there is no match.

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:46 AM

Mark Barnes:

In this case the word 'elect' will have been used in one of your Top Bibles, though the text shown will be from your favourite Bible (which presumably doesn't include the word). If you hover your mouse over the coloured in squares, you'll see the matching verses. The hollow squares means there is no match.

Mark, when searching Top Bibles I'm seeing all of my Top Bibles in the results list in all 4 views (Grid, Verses, Aligned & Analysis). Are you seeing something different?

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Steve Brannon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 8:02 AM

Yes, I see exactly what Mark describes.

My Top Bibles are NASB, ESV, KJV 1900, NIV84 and NRSV.

I understand the colored blocks and how they point to which versions include the exact word and which versions include a "variation".

My question is: how does logos decide to include a "variation"?  Is it the root of the word, the definition, the original language or what?

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 8:20 AM

Steve Brannon:

Yes, I see exactly what Mark describes.

My Top Bibles are NASB, ESV, KJV 1900, NIV84 and NRSV.

I understand the colored blocks and how they point to which versions include the exact word and which versions include a "variation".

My question is: how does logos decide to include a "variation"?  Is it the root of the word, the definition, the original language or what?

Okay, I think I understand what you're asking. You're asking about the use of the word 'variation' in Logos4 help (you're not seeing the word 'variation' in the search results screen). Right?

If so, there are two things happening here that I think you may be confusing. First, since the KJV includes the English word "elect" in Isaiah 42:1, that result is returned in your search results. In Grid view, all your Bibles are displayed for that verse, even though only the KJV has that box colored. This is because of the versions you've selected as your highest priority Bibles, only the KJV has the word "elect" in the verse. This has nothing to do with the term "variations" that the help file refers to. This is an exact match.

What the help file refers to is a search setting that can match exact word forms and/or variations.If you have "Match all word forms" selected, then elect and elects (e.g.) would both be returned in your search results. The plural then is a variation of your search term. If you unselect that option, and type in "elect" then only an exact match will be returned (i.e., the plural will not).

Does this explain what you're seeing/finding? If not, perhaps a screen shot would be helpful.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Steve Brannon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 8:26 AM

Richard,

Thanks, I think I understand now.

I do have "Match all word forms" selected (finding that was not intuitive ;-)  ).

I just want to ensure that if I am going to launch into any particular word study I'm seeing all of the relevant Scripture.  I think this is what I need.  I can use cross-references from here.

Thanks!

Steve

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 8:35 AM

Steve Brannon:

Richard,

Thanks, I think I understand now.

I do have "Match all word forms" selected (finding that was not intuitive ;-)  ).

I just want to ensure that if I am going to launch into any particular word study I'm seeing all of the relevant Scripture.  I think this is what I need.  I can use cross-references from here.

Thanks!

Steve

You're welcome.

BTW, you should understand that "Match all word forms" does not return synonyms (e.g. "chosen" for "elect"). Only slight spelling changes that should involve the same word. Scanning down my list in the "Aligned" view shows these variations: elect, election, elect's, elected. Typically, you will want to leave "Match all word forms" checked, as this allows for such minor variations and doesn't require a precise memory! Only when you want to specifically exclude related words from your search results should you uncheck this option (IMHO, of course).

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 7:09 PM

Peace to you, Steve, and Joy in the Lord....

             a different approach might be to do a Bible search for the Hebrew Lemma - בחיר    --  if you have KJV 1900 interlinear, that lemma is accessible to you via right click....

בְּחִירִ֖י ; however, I just tried that and am not completely happy with that either.

Right now I'm wondering if the KJV translators had the same manuscript as BHS 4.2???

   I truly hope I'm not adding any confusion here!    *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2011 9:23 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
  I truly hope I'm not adding any confusion here!   

You (almost) confused me with the manuscript search.

The lemma search would be best i.e. <Lemma = af/he/בחיר>  from the KJV context menu. This is Andersen-Forbes (af) morphology, which is used in all the English Reverse Interlinear bibles, not BHS 4.2.

Dave
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 22 2011 5:43 AM

Dave Hooton:

Milford Charles Murray:
  I truly hope I'm not adding any confusion here!   

You (almost) confused me with the manuscript search.

The lemma search would be best i.e. <Lemma = af/he/בחיר>  from the KJV context menu. This is Andersen-Forbes (af) morphology, which is used in all the English Reverse Interlinear bibles, not BHS 4.2.

Peace to you, Dave!                 *smile*                                      and!

                                                                             Thank You!

         Perhaps I've learned something  .............    *smile*                              ...........  hope so!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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