Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 8:24 AM

Mike:
So large protestant Churches are best? I do not see that in the Bible.

Of course not, and that's not what I was saying. I was simply making an observation about the diversity of views among protestants. I wasn't making any value judgments about them. My statement about the size of protestant churches is an observation, not a criticism.

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 10:30 AM

@5 Solas

Do you feel at all presumptuous in your assessment of Logos, and Bob Pritchett's, motivation in catering to people outside your universe? 

 

 

 

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 10:41 AM

5 Solas:
Bob, you are accountable before God.

Perfect, let him "Work out his own salvation..." and give it a rest, will you!

- Michael

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 10:51 AM

Michael Anda:

@5 Solas

Do you feel at all presumptuous in your assessment of Logos, and Bob Pritchett's, motivation in catering to people outside your universe? 

Devil I should let Steve answer for himself but I am guessing when he dines in a fancy restaurant he asks the maître d' to clear the establishment of anyone that doesn't look like or agree with him.  

(There go the fat women, the bald men, the gays, the Democrats, the immigrants, the Mormans, the senior citizens, & the cripples.)

If we viewed Logos as a secular dining establishment maybe we could leave judgment day to the only One who is qualified to sift the inner heart. Even God withholds judgement; patiently waiting, extending his mercies.          Matthew 13:24-30

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Posts 176
Bill Coley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 12:01 PM

Reading this thread prompts two Scripture passages to my spirit. The first is 1 Corinthians 1.10-17, where Paul chides Christians for the divisions among them that are grounded in misguided loyalties.

In this thread, people display loyalty to their tradition, to their theology, to their hermeneutics, or to their.... And that wouldn’t be a bad thing except that, as with the Corinthian loyalties, those who disagree are often judged to be inferior or unequal or untrue (one poster in this thread graciously, but perhaps grudgingly, acknowledged that some Roman Catholics are actually “true Christians,” which meant all other RCs are, of course, untrue Christians. Can you say, “Welcome to Logos!”?)

Personal opinion, tradition, and experience grind distorted lenses through which to view other followers of Jesus, lenses that magnify differences and minimize core similarity. Loyalty to denomination or personal Scriptural interpretation that supercedes loyalty to the unity Jesus expected from his followers makes constructive exchanges of differences all but impossible. The result? Threads such as this one and the ones that prompted it.


The other Scripture passage that comes to my spirit is Mark 9.38-40, where frustrated disciples complain to Jesus about a person who’s driving out demons using the correct name, but not as part of their particular group. Jesus tells them not to interfere with the person’s ministry.

Logos forums are filled with people who are doing great things in the name of Jesus. Sadly, as this and other threads demonstrate, Logos forums are also populated with people who aren’t willing to acknowledge people outside their particular groups (or theologies, or traditions, or...) without running to Jesus (or, in these forums, to Bob Pritchett!) to complain.

I think theological debates are great – in churches, in coffee shops, in these forums. But I also think it’s obvious we’re not very good at them. Theological debates are almost inevitable in the Logos forums because a significant proportion of forum users are as passionate about their faith as they are about their Bible software Big Smile. The only way to stop the debates is to shut down the forums. But we ought not need such draconian measures to shut down the judgment and acrimony. It’s very simple: Act like the followers of Jesus you claim to be.

I say, don’t stop debating disagreements; stop judging those with whom you disagree. Claim – make that celebrate – the family Jesus delivered you into, a family that is not a convention of clones, but rather a collection of parts as different from each other as hands are from kneecaps, and lungs are from toenails (1 Corinthians 12), a family over whose rules governing membership we have no say.

The next time someone posts something with which you disagree. Say, “I disagree because.... But I gladly call you brother/sister.” If you can’t say that, then say, “I gladly call you brother/sister.” And if you can’t say that, then confess, repent, and ask forgiveness.

Blessings,

Bill

Posts 255
Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 12:14 PM

A Scriptural study on unity will reveal that unity in Truth (and I think we would agree that Christ embodied the Truth) was to be sought; NOT unity for unity's sake.

It is not Scriptural to teach, or take a position that we should seek unity at all costs.  This is a popular heresy that allows for multitudinous, multifaceted, manifold divisions.

For those advocating unity over and above Truth, I simply ask, is Truth embodied in the Word, or in the individual?  If you say the individual, I agree, we have no basis for polemics; however, if in the Word, then by all means, we have all the reason to defend it in Christ and through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The greatest example of all concerning unity only when it was grounded in Truth was how Christ addressed all.  Why do you think that Christ braced the Pharisees?  Dare I even say that those who are in favor of unity for unity's sake would not have braced the Pharisees today, but would welcome them into their house and bow down before them!

We are in a battle gentlemen, against principalities, powers and those who rule the air!  If you do not seek to adhere to Truth, how can you expect to identify the strategies and tactics of the enemy?

Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 12:37 PM

I can't be bothered to read through this whole thread so this may already be addressed but I just want to say that Logos is doing the right thing. I don't want some narrow minded person dictating to me what I can buy and read. What if I am studying Catholic doctrine and want to get some authoritative resources on the subject? What I buy and read is my choice. Keep up the good work logos.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 12:48 PM

I rarely read anything except technical posts on the forum anymore for the same reason that a straight forward request (decree?) from the president of Logos is still generating hype 8 pages later. But I must admit that I am sure glad I opened this one, just wish I had some popcorn as I sat down to watch the show.

Carry on. Geeked

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 12:57 PM

If you believe the authority resides in the holy scriptures and God said his word will not return to him void, why not allow God (who is a bit more powerful than you) deal with all the error in the world. One of the greatest prideful flaws of preachers is to believe their own honey-dripping words can convict men of sin and convince them to repent. God chose the "foolishness of preaching" to show himself powerful. If God and his holy word are not able to convict & convince sinners, what makes you feel you can or should?

"Be Still and Know that I Am God"  Psalm 46:10

addendum: See? Even I get to thinking my special wisdom can convince others of their error. That proves how futile our own wisdom is. Embarrassed

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:02 PM

Terry Poperszky:
just wish I had some popcorn as I sat down to watch the show.

Can't wait till the intermission...

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:03 PM

5 Solas:

My response is pretty clear cut and straightforward.  Roman Catholicism is "another gospel" and cannot save.  What else is there to say.  It is not my opinion, it is based on the Authority of Scripture alone.  But since Roman Catholics stand on the authority of a pope and not Scripture I do not expect you to understand or agree.  But unless you repent and believe the Gospel you will perish in your sins.  

I passed this info on to others who are doing a better job addressing this than me and are now  getting the attention of Bob Pritchett. I pray Bob does the right thing and understands that Roman Catholicism is not consistent with Biblical Christianity for it is in no way "Christian".   

 

 

I'm right and anyone who doesn't agree with me is going straight to a warmer climate.  Logos should only publish my books or those with which i agree.  I will post an Index of Prohibited Books to assist in determining what may be published. 

Does that fairly represent your view?  What chutzpah !

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:16 PM

Halo Hound:

Terry Poperszky:
just wish I had some popcorn as I sat down to watch the show.

Can't wait till the intermission...

I settled for iced tea and peanuts.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:20 PM

5 Solas:

My response is pretty clear cut and straightforward.  Roman Catholicism is "another gospel" and cannot save.  What else is there to say.  It is not my opinion, it is based on the Authority of Scripture alone.  But since Roman Catholics stand on the authority of a pope and not Scripture I do not expect you to understand or agree.  But unless you repent and believe the Gospel you will perish in your sins.  

I haven't read through all this thread - mainly only the first page and this page.  But I thought I might weigh in a bit and will probably just end up getting more flame (but then again, I am Wesleyan so we're used to the 'flames'!).  Anyway, you say RC's stand on the authority of the pope and not scripture, implying that the only valid way to be a Christian is to stand on the authority of Scripture.  However, that seems to simplify a complex document (the Bible) and a complex issue (hermeneutics and ecclesiology) into something that it's not.  If all we needed was the Bible to answer all questions of theology, it would seem that there would be no disagreement among Christians.  After all, if the Bible was that clear on every doctrinal issue, then we should all be able to open it up and come to the same conclusions every time we read it.  But, we all know that's not the case.  Protestantism is known for, well, it's protests against other Christians.  Bob mentioned this early on, not to say we are trying to be divisive, but to point out where our name comes from.  We disagree on so much because the Bible is complex, full of meaning and beauty, and speaks different truths to different people and at different times.  I'm sure you've had the experience of reading a passage and interpreting it one way, only to reread it days, months or years later and interpret it a completely different way.  On who's authority do you rest your interpretation?  It becomes circular to say the Bible's and problematic to say the Holy Spirit's.  I believe we are (or should be) guided by the HS when interpreting the Bible, but I also believe we must walk in serious trepidation before we question someone else's inspiration of the HS.  That includes the pope.  RC's have put trust in the HS working through their system to elect a pope that will submit himself to the spiritual disciplines necessary to discern the Spirit's movements.  Personally, I question some of the pope's words and actions at times.  But then again, I also question yours ... and mine for that matter.  As for RC being in no way 'Christian', you are basically calling the 2000 year history of Christianity false.  You forget that you are influenced by that history and tradition.  Calvin was influenced by Luther and Luther by the RC Church - however much he may have reacted against the church, he still was influenced by it and continued to keep some of it's teachings.

Personally, I wonder how you would interpret the actions of the Pharisees in the gospels.  They seemed to be very exclusionary, claiming they had the corner on truth and Scriptural interpretation, and would criticize others for not following their ways of serving God - to the point of calling others heretical or forbidding them from the temple.  Sound familiar?

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:26 PM

5 Solas:
My response is pretty clear cut and straightforward.

Your response is clear cut lawlessness.  No two ways about it.

Phil Gons Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010 1:23 PM | Locked

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:28 PM

Rev Chris:
  I'm sure you've had the experience of reading a passage and interpreting it one way, only to reread it days, months or years later and interpret it a completely different way.  On who's authority do you rest your interpretation? 

Wesley could not have said it better.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3670
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:32 PM

James Macleod:

I can't be bothered to read through this whole thread so this may already be addressed but I just want to say that Logos is doing the right thing. I don't want some narrow minded person dictating to me what I can buy and read. What if I am studying Catholic doctrine and want to get some authoritative resources on the subject? What I buy and read is my choice. Keep up the good work logos.

Yes

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:32 PM

MJ. Smith:

Halo Hound:

Terry Poperszky:
just wish I had some popcorn as I sat down to watch the show.

Can't wait till the intermission...

I settled for iced tea and peanuts.

McDonalds has the best Iced tea, primarily because it comes in a cool cup and its a buck.

Mind if I grab some of those peanuts?

Posts 294
Debra W Bouey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 1:52 PM

MJ. Smith:
I settled for iced tea and peanuts.

Make mine dry roasted almonds and toss in a lemon wedge with my iced tea...

Lenovo P72: Intel 8th Gen i7-8750H 6-core, 32GB RAM, 2TB HDD + 1TB Sata SSD, 17.3" FHD 1920x1080, NVIDIA Quadro P600 4GB, Win 10 Pro

Posts 3670
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 2:09 PM

This place is going to us dogs:

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2011 2:26 PM

Terry Poperszky:
request (decree?)
Personally, I think of a decree coming from a tyrannical organization. For instance, the one handed down during the Inquisition: That anyone in possession of a Bible would be put to death. Is this an example of the members following the leadership, The quality that is missing in the Protestants?

 

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