Concerned Investment

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Reynaldo Crespin | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2011 11:48 PM

I as a very long time customer have invested into logos and libronix because I had seen the way that your software was available to assist pastors and teachers like myself by saving us countless hours of research time in preparing our lesson plans and for this we are greatly appreciative of your contribution to the work of Christ.  However as time has progressed and new innovations have been made available it has become more concerning as to the less control end users are having on the products that they are purchasing and how the cloud has become more of the big brother to the resources which we have invested into.  Allowing us after each upgrade less control to those products at the device level and more control in the cloud and I don’t mean God!  Just yesterday I explained a problem of not being able to install a serial number or CD into my Logos 4 for Mac that I was once able to do in the PC version of the same software.  Why?  Could someone please explain to me the reason!  Other colleges of mine are having the same concern.  Please explain.  I am looking forward to your reply.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 12:01 AM

Hi Reynaldo - and welcome to the forums.

You may get a range of responses here but if you are looking for a reply directly from Logos (as opposed to Logos customers) then it is probably best to contact Logos directly.

A list of their email addresses can be found at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Email_Addresses

Hope this helps

Graham

EDIT: Sorry, Dave provided a much better response to your specific question!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 12:03 AM

Welcome Reynaldo

Reynaldo Crespin:
Just yesterday I explained a problem of not being able to install a serial number or CD into my Logos 4 for Mac that I was once able to do in the PC version of the same software.  Why?

You cannot install Libronix on Mac because it is a product for Windows only; so you have to contact Logos Customer Service to activate a Serial No. for Libronix CD's. If you still have a Windows PC then you can activate a CD in Libronix which will then update your L4 licences.

Dave
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Windows & Android

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 1:30 AM

Reynaldo Crespin:
Just yesterday I explained a problem of not being able to install a serial number or CD into my Logos 4 for Mac that I was once able to do in the PC version of the same software. 

Welcome Big Smile

If new Logos 4 purchase is made at a conference (not from Logos.com); initial Logos 4 setup needs a serial number on Mac and PC.  Once serial number is associated with your Logos.com account, not needed for your next installation (can download your Logos library licenses from Logos servers after sign-in with your Logos.com account).  If purchase Logos base packages and resources from Logos.com then no serial number entry is needed.

Wiki Logos 4 Mac => Need Logos 4 PC feature? section includes virtualization and native boot options for running Windows on a Mac.   Personally have used Libronix 3.0g in a Windows virtual machine on an iMac to enter an older Libronix 3 CD serial number then sync updated library resource license with Logos servers.  Next time launched Logos 4 Mac (on same iMac) had new resources to download and index for use. Geeked

By the way, the first Libronix port to Mac (Logos for Mac v.1) lacked serial number entry and many other Libronix 3.0 features (e.g. Notes); had to manually download resource and sync licenses => http://www.macbiblesoftware.com/support/articles/1008/  (if not purchased from Logos, had to contact Logos customer service to associate resource license with Logos.com account).  After Safari 5 update broke most features in Logos for Mac v1.2.2, Logos no longer offers free "Logos for Mac v1.2.2" for new users.  Thankful for Logos licensing change in 2009; purchase resource once, use wherever permitted by agreement (i.e. some resources not available for mobile apps).

Thankful for Logos 4.3 Release Candidate 1 on Mac, which is currently the best Logos 4 Mac version; looking forward to Logos 4.3 Release Candidate 2 improvements very soon, perhaps later this week (with fix for opening layouts on OS X Lion with floating windows).  Likewise Thankful Personal Book Builder (PBB) was developed on Mac and PC at the same time (suspect harbinger of future Logos 4 feature development).  Wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity section has a list of Logos 4 Mac features needing improvement (includes link to Logos User Voice suggestion, can vote to help Logos prioritize new Logos 4 feature development and feature parity).

Observation: could have posted in Logos 4 Mac forum.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 10031
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 7:01 AM

There's an obviousness to Reynaldo's question ... absent the 'cloud' (e.g. Logos Co.), how would Reynaldo use his book(s) in the future. One doesn't have to look far to see that Bible publishing companies do find ways to unload their electronic-book customers, all the while shrugging their shoulders ('it's business'). Essentially the equation works out to what your opinion of Bob and his twitter-happy brother is (as company owners; not personally).


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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 7:37 AM

Reynaldo,

The advances Logos has made can be on the one hand troubling, as you have expressed, and on the other hand quite encouraging.

The fact that you are concerned about a feature in the Mac version of Logos speaks to the advances Logos has made. A few years ago it wasn't possible to talk about Logos on the Mac. The same is true of the new applications people are enjoying on the iOS platform and that are now being developed on the Android platform.

We know that not everything will work the same way in the future as things worked in the past. That doesn't have to be bad. Some things are working much better, if differently. For example, CDs will eventually be as out of date as floppy discs now are. New delivery systems are and will be taking their place. That isn't bad.

I, for one, am pretty grateful for the way the cloud synchronizes my Logos installations between my laptop and desktop machines. That is a great advance and use of existing technology. There has been nothing about this use of the cloud in Logos 4 that has caused me to buy fewer resources or be concerned about having them in the future. I am concerned about our personal data being kept safe, as some of us have lost important data because Logos 4 has no backup facility. I think that needs to be addressed and have expressed that in other threads.

Logos 4 requires a different mindset than its predecessors. All of us have had to take time to get our mind wrapped around the way Logos 4 works. But I think the effort I have made has been more than rewarded, and I would certainly not want to go backward. I hope you and your colleagues will not become disillusioned with Logos 4 and will be able to focus on the better things it brings rather than the few things it leaves behind.

As a long-time user of Logos I know you want Logos to succeed. Make use of the Suggestions Forum and Logos' Uservoice web site (http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4)  to help Logos become a better product. Logos is listening to our concerns.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2
Kyle Hite | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 10:28 AM

As another long time person with Logos (early 90's) I have often wondered what it means to buy resources electronically rather than print. Will they be continually updated into newer formats and available to us throughout our ministry? I liked the move Logos made in 2009 to keep a central database of our licenses. That saved me from continually backing them up. But as more publishers get into the epub market, we see that it gets very complicated. For instance, the NIV Bible I purchased through Logos years ago is not available in the iPad version of their software. Even more painful is how Logos does not even have the old Galaxy collections on their server. Today I finally learned, after hours working with level 2 techs, that in order to use them in version 4 on a Mac i have to manually move them from my old disk to hidden folders deep in the bowels of my Mac to make them available to me. All along, there are newer versions of Calvin's Commentaries, The Church Fathers, The Works of Josephus and The Amplified Bible to which Logos will not even give me access. I am more disappointed in Logos today than ever before. The tech told me I would have to buy all of those resources again at the full price in order to get access to them. I have sunk thousands of dollars into my collection with Logos and have supported them when their stocks when public and have convinced countless numbers of people to purchase their libraries from Logos. Alas, I am forgotten by Logos in the process.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 10:35 AM

Kyle Hite:
All along, there are newer versions of Calvin's Commentaries, The Church Fathers, The Works of Josephus and The Amplified Bible to which Logos will not even give me access.

I assume you mean that you can still access your older versions? If not, please let us know because you should be able to.

Unfortunately new versions cost something to create and it is not unreasonable for Logos to ask for us to pay for them. Paper publishers cannot afford to send you a copy of a revised or better printed version simply because you have an old one on your shelf. Logos is no different. I personally have no problem with this.

When the new Calvin Commentary set came out I paid a very reasonable fee to use it. I still have the old set but the new one is much better and well worth the upgrade price.

You should still have access to everything you purchased from Logos. Again, let us know if you don't. Getting updates for free is another matter.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2
Reynaldo Crespin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 3:55 PM

Hello Dave, I appreciate you answer regarding installing a libronix CD in windows.  Although I had the difficuly of transfering my books from the old versons to libonix in windows, I still was able to use my CD's incase for some reason I had lost information on my computer and I needed to reenstall my books.  I have to admit that it was a bit tedious.  None the less, I had a physical copy of the book just like I have a physical book on my shelf.  Now, with the cloud I am seeing a trend to move infomation to a cloud server to store purchases and no longer providing a physical copy.  And a concern has arisen as old books of the same author are not available on the cloud verson without having to repurchase them.  This is my dilemma! And as Graham suggested needs to be addressed to Logos directly. As Benjamin Franklin had quoted, “Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 4:21 PM

Reynaldo Crespin:

Hello Dave, I appreciate you answer regarding installing a libronix CD in windows.  Although I had the difficuly of transfering my books from the old versons to libonix in windows, I still was able to use my CD's incase for some reason I had lost information on my computer and I needed to reenstall my books.  I have to admit that it was a bit tedious.  None the less, I had a physical copy of the book just like I have a physical book on my shelf.  Now, with the cloud I am seeing a trend to move infomation to a cloud server to store purchases and no longer providing a physical copy.  And a concern has arisen as old books of the same author are not available on the cloud verson without having to repurchase them.  This is my dilemma! And as Graham suggested needs to be addressed to Logos directly. As Benjamin Franklin had quoted, “Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Not sure I understand the concern, though I am trying. You can still use your books in Libronix 3 just like you used to, now you have increased access to them, and in the case that you lose your cds or your serial number or have the catastrophic happen to your computer, everything is instantaneously available for a non-tedious re-install.

 

To me, I am all the more encouraged that my investment won't be lost in the years to come as Logos has

  • decreased their support staff (pointing toward company longevity), 
  • expanded their company (company longevity), 
  • increased compatibility of my books (used to only be able to use them on my old PC), and
  • made my books more secure. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2011 5:28 PM

Reynaldo Crespin:
Now, with the cloud I am seeing a trend to move infomation to a cloud server to store purchases and no longer providing a physical copy.

You can make your own physical copy of L4 or just backup the resources - and remember that L4 will function offline as well as online. Equally important are your documents or user files (L3 terminology); L3 required you to make your own copy (backup) whilst L4 can restore them from the cloud!

Reynaldo Crespin:
And a concern has arisen as old books of the same author are not available on the cloud verson without having to repurchase them. 

If you acquired the NIV 2011 in a base library then you have to purchase NIV 1984, but if you were fortunate enough to have NIV 1984 then you received a free update to NIV 2011. However this cannot be relied upon between different publishers  i.e. they may withdraw the older version from sale or require you to purchase the new version. Earlier versions of the ESV are not available as the 2007 revisions were incorporated into the same resource.

If you have a physical copy of an older version you can still use it but it will be automatically updated in L4 if they uses the same resource file (same resource identity). In this case, note that you cannot use both the older version and its update in L3 (if you install them in different folders, L3 will use the later version).

Swings and roundabouts ....

EDIT: if you bought a book you still own the licence and can continue to use it as I mention above so it Re-purchasing is not necessary. Can you be more specific about this.

Dave
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Windows & Android

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