Talmud,Talmud,Talmud more Talmud

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Aug 31 2011 3:59 PM

Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing  http://www.logos.com/product/10356/the-babylonian-talmud-original-text-edited-corrected-formulated-and-translated-into-english

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Super.Tramp | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 4:22 PM

Ted Hans:
Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing

I need help from somebody! George!?   If this keeps up, I will not just be Swimming in the Sea of Talmud, I will be drowning in it!
If one has the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection (50 vols.) by Jacob Neusner does he need this oneTell me yes! Big Smile

...

Posts 8510
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 4:23 PM

Ted Hans:

Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing  http://www.logos.com/product/10356/the-babylonian-talmud-original-text-edited-corrected-formulated-and-translated-into-english

I'm in.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8510
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 4:24 PM

Super Tramp:

Ted Hans:
Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing

I need help from somebody! George!?   If this keeps up, I will not just be Swimming in the Sea of Talmud, I will be drowning in it!
If one has the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection (50 vols.) by Jacob Neusner does he need this oneTell me yes! Big Smile

If a doctor recommended removing your head, would you seek a second opinion?  Big Smile  Here's the second opinion.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8510
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 4:26 PM

BTW:  Note that this is only the Babylonian Talmud -- and not even all of it at that.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 409
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 4:34 PM

George Somsel:

I'm in.

I'm in.

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Super.Tramp | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 6:12 PM

George Somsel:
If a doctor recommended removing your head, would you seek a second opinion?  Big Smile  Here's the second opinion.

I'd get a third & fourth opinion.  So Logos, how about a couple more Talmuds??  Even a Reverse-Interlinear would be nice.

Then we can have a Talmud-wrestling match. Surprise

...

Posts 5548
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 8:11 PM

Looking at the tractate intros, I signed up.

I also notice Perseus now has an end of the month ship date. Timing's great, with the Civil War heating up.


Posts 372
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 8:18 PM

I'm in!

Posts 8510
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 31 2011 9:45 PM

Super Tramp:
So Logos, how about a couple more Talmuds??  Even a Reverse-Interlinear would be nice.

I wouldn't favor a reverse interlinear, but I would tolerate a regular interlinear if it would get us the original text (I could hide the other lines).  This doesn't indicate any softening on my part toward interlinears but only a desire to have the original text (in its proper order).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2011 5:52 AM

How is this different from the Talmud that is already available in Logos?

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2011 6:06 AM

Couldn't resist it. I'm in.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2011 6:33 AM

Ronald Quick:

How is this different from the Talmud that is already available in Logos?

George Somsel:

BTW:  Note that this is only the Babylonian Talmud -- and not even all of it at that.

The Talmud already available in Logos includes the Babylonian & Jerusalem Talmud. Whilst the community pricing Talmud is just the Babylonian Talmud, though incomplete & it is a different translation of the same material. 

 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2011 6:37 AM

George Somsel:
I wouldn't favor a reverse interlinear, but I would tolerate a regular interlinear if it would get us the original text (I could hide the other lines).  This doesn't indicate any softening on my part toward interlinears but only a desire to have the original text (in its proper order).

George, your secret is safe with me on the Interlinear front WinkStick out tongue

Posts 178
Oldnewbie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2011 8:17 AM

I'm definitely in. 

Posts 34
Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2011 9:10 AM

It's really good to see more Jewish/Hebraic resources for Logos. This is the primary reason I use Logos. It's really nice to start getting more options.

Posts 771
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2011 4:52 PM

Some apparent concerns about deliberate omissions and censorship by Rodkinson in his Talmud translation:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/censorship_1.html

 

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 7680
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 6 2011 9:38 AM

Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it. I got suspicious and started to check it out. Not only is the author a major conspiracy theorist who runs a "Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum" and is convinced the 9/11 planes were, in fact, remotely controlled by NORAD in conspiracy with Israel, the whole site is a disguised hate-campaign against Jews, Judaism and everything Jewish. 

She pretends to promote "tolerance" and "understanding", and she pretends her campaign to get Christians to read the Talmud is to increase such "understanding", but if you look a bit closer, it's all about promoting a completely different kind of "understanding". She wants Christians to "understand" what Judaism is "truly" about: world dominion and murdering Christians (besides a number of other nasty things). She links to quote after quote which is supposed to prove that Judaism teaches that every Christian must be killed. And she's convinced American Jews are on a mission to make the US a land governed by talmudic law. New website, old story, in other words...

Furthermore, according to others, those long alleged Soncino quotes are a) not taken directly from the Soncino Talmud, but from another deeply anti-Semitic book, b) used without permission (by both authors), and c) not necessarily trustworthy.

So while it is, of course, entirely possible that this Rodkinson did leave out distasteful or anti-Christian passages (it's not like there aren't any, and it's not like Jews haven't done it before, to at least lessen the risk for persecution and book burnings), I for one would want a more reliable source before I believe it.

It's too late for you to edit the post, but if I were you I'd ask Logos to remove the link. I don't want anti-Semitism promoted on these pages any more than I want anti-Catholicism to be.

And as for the rest of you: if you haven't clicked on the link before, please don't do so now out of curiosity. Don't give her the satisfaction of many new visitors, and don't give me the grief of having caused it. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Mini late 2010 8GB RAM 10.6.8

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Super.Tramp | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2011 11:07 AM

fgh:
Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it.

I found Eric's post to be informative and relevant. Eric did not say he espoused the same views. Scholars would do well to be aware of divergent statements no matter how ridiculous or inflammatory they are.

The contents of that website are no more objectionable than:

  • the Arkansas preacher who claims Jesus was not a "Jew", or
  • the "cult" that systematized the sexual abuse of children, or
  • the "censorship of the Encyclopedia Britannica by the Vatican" (post-1911), or
  • the SBC TV preacher who did an expose on "occultist Masonic rites", or
  • the "fact" that George W. Bush orchestrated hurricane  Katrina to attack New Orleans, or
  • Fenton John Anthony Hort's "racist" comments against Blacks and "hatred" for the American Empire.

Some of the accusations above have a great measure of truth behind them, while others are preposterous, to say the least. Without have open access to read,and judge for ourselves, some of the truths will never be known and some of the lies will be believed because they are suppressed. 

Unfortunately I found one quote on the linked website that I agree with:
"Censorship damages inter-religious and inter-cultural understanding — no matter who does it."

...

Posts 771
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2011 11:22 AM

fgh:

Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it. I got suspicious and started to check it out. Not only is the author a major conspiracy theorist who runs a "Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum" and is convinced the 9/11 planes were, in fact, remotely controlled by NORAD in conspiracy with Israel, the whole site is a disguised hate-campaign against Jews, Judaism and everything Jewish. 

She pretends to promote "tolerance" and "understanding", and she pretends her campaign to get Christians to read the Talmud is to increase such "understanding", but if you look a bit closer, it's all about promoting a completely different kind of "understanding". She wants Christians to "understand" what Judaism is "truly" about: world dominion and murdering Christians (besides a number of other nasty things). She links to quote after quote which is supposed to prove that Judaism teaches that every Christian must be killed. And she's convinced American Jews are on a mission to make the US a land governed by talmudic law. New website, old story, in other words...

Furthermore, according to others, those long alleged Soncino quotes are a) not taken directly from the Soncino Talmud, but from another deeply anti-Semitic book, b) used without permission (by both authors), and c) not necessarily trustworthy.

So while it is, of course, entirely possible that this Rodkinson did leave out distasteful or anti-Christian passages (it's not like there aren't any, and it's not like Jews haven't done it before, to at least lessen the risk for persecution and book burnings), I for one would want a more reliable source before I believe it.

It's too late for you to edit the post, but if I were you I'd ask Logos to remove the link. I don't want anti-Semitism promoted on these pages any more than I want anti-Catholicism to be.

And as for the rest of you: if you haven't clicked on the link before, please don't do so now out of curiosity. Don't give her the satisfaction of many new visitors, and don't give me the grief of having caused it. 

 

Oh, I saw the tone of the Webpage and felt that the author might be a bit "out there," but I first checked her comments against the online version of Rodkinson's Talmud and compared some sections of his Talmud with Neusner's that I have in Logos, and felt that the comments the author was making about Rodkinson's Talmud were confirmed both by Rodkinson himself in his notes and by Neusner's edition of the Babylonian Talmud, which is why I posted a link to it even though it might be a biased source.

So I wouldn't tell people to ignore the link. There are some truthful criticisms of Rodkinson there.

FWIW, I'm Jewish. If the author is anti-Semitic, I didn't find her Rodkinson Talmud criticisms to be invalid with respect to the parts I checked.

More serious, though, is that I don't think Rodkinson uses standard Talmud referencing, so it may not link to Logos resources that cite Talmud tracts by their full nomenclature except to bring up entire chapters and not the specific citations.

 

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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