Hebrew Vowel Points Do Not Line Up

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This post has 22 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 24 2011 1:42 PM

Using my Samsung Captivate (AT&T; OS 2.2), the vowel points are underneath the corresponding Hebrew letter, but they are aligned to the left side. Not only does this slow down reading, it gets confusing when the second vowel of a composite shewa is under the letter that follows. This happens in both the Stuttgartensia and the Lexham interlinear. Any fixes?

Posts 706
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 3:00 PM

This is the case on my (rarely used by me) wife's ipod touch as well.

27 iMac, quadcore 2.8, 1Tb HD, 8Gb RAM; 13 Macbook Air, i5 128Gb SSD, 4Gb RAM.

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 28 2011 2:19 PM

Thanks Ben. Well, it seems possible that it is not he phone althoug I'd be interested in hearing from people who do not have this problem and what phone they are using. I'd also be interested in hearing from Logos but neither have happened so far.

Posts 798
LogosEmployee
Dave Dunkin (Logos) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 28 2011 2:30 PM

iOS and Android both internally use versions of the same technologies for drawing text. Those underlying bits of code don't do a very good job with Hebrew and other non-Latin characters. iOS 5 fixes some of these issues and the fixes are often requested in the Android development community.

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 29 2011 7:03 PM

If I’m hearing you correctly, the problem is not with the Logos software but the latest Android operating system (and pre-iOS 5 operating systems). So I can only hope that the next Android OS fixes the issue, correct?

Posts 13060
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2011 7:29 PM

Kent Mundhenk:
So I can only hope that the next Android OS fixes the issue, correct?

Wonder if Android device can upgrade to newer Android OS version => http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support ?

Appears part of Android business model is need to purchase new hardware if want newer Android OS.  In contrast, Apple's iOS 5 is a free upgrade for many devices (including some models over 2 years old) so looking forward to Hebrew vowel point placement improvements in Logos app.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 79
Jim Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 1:25 PM

The vowel placement issue cannot be just the OS or even the OS primarily. I have used Olivetree on my Android for the past year and a half. Never a problem with Hebrew text and alignment is correct.

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 3 2011 8:29 PM

Thanks. Do you have any Hebrew sources from Logos on  your Android? If so, do the vowel points line up?

Posts 79
Jim Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 4 2011 4:46 PM

I have the language package in Logos4 along with a number of other resources I have purchased separately. The vowel points are misalligned on all my Hebrew resources. Once you get use to it, it is tolerable. The word lookups are one word off, but that is the same in Greek.  I suspect that these will eventually get fixed (especially sense the same problems exist in the iphone). Until then, I am happy to live with the anamolies; just having my library (over 2,000 volumes) on my phone is amazing.

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 5 2011 7:12 AM

I completely agree… having all my resources available from my phone is simply incredible. I have downloaded several of them to my phone for faster lookups or when WiFi is spotty. I guess I can deal with lookup and vowel points being a bit off, but it will be nice when Logos gets it fixed. It’s been a problem since the beta version although they have fixed many other problems and improved functionality dramatically. I’m guessing the Hebrew vowel point issues are lower on the priority list but hopefully they’ll get to it soon.

Posts 4
Richard Klueg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 7:45 PM

The misaligned Hebrew vowel points are annoying, and I do hope it is fixed soon. I am trying to read my Hebrew faster, and this is like running through thick mud!  I look for a fix in every update, but alas, nothing yet. Still, it is pretty amazing having all of this on my phone.

Posts 24
Laurie J. Braaten | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 13 2011 1:55 PM

For correct alignment of vowel points Logos will have to quit waiting for the Android system to fix "their" display problem. They will have to do as Olivetree and devise their own fix to correctly display characters.

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 13 2011 2:36 PM

There are probably enough people who use Logos Hebrew resources on their smartphone to warrant devoting some man-hours to getting it fixed. I keep hoping this string will get their attention but it might need a few more posts.

Posts 12
Jason Marriott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 3:52 PM

Just adding my voice to these cries, correct hebrew vowel pointing on android devices would be fantastic.

 

Thanks

Posts 44
Dr. Rupert Loyd Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 7:40 AM

Ditto.

Posts 5
Mathieu Pelletier | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 10:43 AM

Agreed.  Ijust upgraded my tablet to jelly bean and no dice.  I was under the impression this would be fixed by upgrading.  Ithink we need to make a plan to sort this out or make it an option to turn off th pointing.  

 

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 12:28 PM

It seems that the problem is either something in the smatrphone technology, or simply the Logos app. Above, Dave mentioned that the iOS and Android use similar drawing technologies. Also,Ben mentioned having this problem on his ipod Touch. I am now using firware 2.3.5 (Gingerbread) and nothing has changed. Even if the vowel points and Hebrew text do line up on iOS 5, iPhone is down to 15% of the smartphone market according to some reports. Those same reports list Android at 75%. So, it seems like it is time to invest some time and get this fixed.

Posts 79
Jim Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 8:37 AM

Since Olive Tree Hebrew and Greek work fine and have since the beginning of their Android App, it is no doubt Logos and not Android. It clearly isn't a priority for them. I think they are emphasizing English Bible study tools rather than original language exegesis. Does anyone know if iphone/ipad uses have the same problem?

Posts 11
Kent Mundhenk | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:37 AM

I know that there is some emphasis on original language tools. They recently offered a Scholars Camp Logos 1 for Bible school and seminary professors. This had an impact on at least one attending seminary as Logos became the preferred Bible software for the institution. This was in large part due to the original language tools and capabilities. I believe that fixing this problem would help students especially if they use the vocabulary building references.

Posts 521
LogosEmployee
Drew Hannay | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:02 AM

Hello folks,

First, I would like to direct you to this post, where we fully explain the issue with Hebrew vowel points and our efforts to resolve this for you guys: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53055/396727.aspx  Short version: We've spent extensive time on the issue and when we had no success, we reached out to Google for help solving the issue and we were told it was a known bug with the Android text rendering engine and it had "already been resolved internally" and would be available "in the next version of Android". We are unclear as to whether this means Android 4.2 (set to be released in a few days, as far as I know) or if we will need to wait for Key Lime Pie.

As for Olive Tree and any other Android apps that may have this feature working, I can't claim to know how they achieved this...I can only say that Google told us fixing the issue would require rewriting several core components of Android and would be to our detriment (and that of our users) in the long run. This bug is definitely a high priority for Logos, but unfortunately, it appears the only thing we can do right now is wait.

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