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Gary Shogren | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:20 PM

From a real neophyte who is about to scrape the bucks together for a tablet - has anyone tried both iPad 2 and the Thrive? What are the pros and cons?

I've used Logos for years, BTW, on the notebook.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 21 2011 7:54 PM

Gary Shogren:
has anyone tried both iPad 2 and the Thrive? What are the pros and cons?

Gary - I don't know if anyone will chime in so I will give my thoughts... [full disclosure: I am a Mac only user].

The iPad is the Gold Standard of tablets. The Wall Street Journal suggests that Apple may have 75% of the Market by the end of the year. The rest of the market is highly fragmented among other OS, the majority being some flavor of Google's Android. According to the WSJ article, Toshiba does not make the top 10 in terms of sales, nor is it expected to through the end of next year.

In most cases, the iPad is superior to almost any other tablet in terms of hardware. A quick glance at the Thrive, some reviewers were raving about its specs. What they can't say is that the experience is as good. Nobody comes close to having the same amount of good/safe/quality apps like the Apple App Store for iOS.

In terms of running Logos, iOS is ahead of Android in terms of development. In my opinion, this will be true for a while, if for no other reason than the fragmentation of the market. Recently everyone was excited about the new Kindle Fire. As it turns out, the Fire has to be Jerry Rigged to run the app... You cannot download the Logos App from the Amazon Android store for the Amazon Kindle Fire... Logos can't be expected to make a special version of the mobile app for every version of Android, let alone every maker. 

If you are more than a couple of months away from "scraping together" your pennies, I would wait until spring. Apple will probably come out with the iPad 3 by then. Even if you decide not to get the latest & greatest by Jobs & co, the iPad 2 will be available at a reduced cost. And if you make the decision to go with one of the "also rans," Apple will continue to drive down the price of the others as well (as they lose their shirts doing so). 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 22 2011 1:32 AM

Gary Shogren:

From a real neophyte who is about to scrape the bucks together for a tablet - has anyone tried both iPad 2 and the Thrive? What are the pros and cons?

I've used Logos for years, BTW, on the notebook.

Pro (iPad) – all apps pass through Apple and therefore are 'policed' I don't suppose that the system is foolproof but so far it is working well.

They used to argue that there were no viruses on the apple because it had too small a market share. The iPad market share is huge but we still find ourselves pretty much free of this particular curse. Sometimes 'vulnerabilities' are discovered but Apple seems to react quickly to them.

This seems to me to be a major point in favour of the iPad.

If you can - call in at an Apple store and have a play.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 140
Gary Shogren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 22 2011 6:39 AM

Many thanks. Apart from Logos, my (distant) second interest was that the Thrive had an HDMI port, while the iPod didn't. But, Logos comes first, so whatever runs it best is what I want.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 22 2011 6:50 AM

Gary Shogren:

Many thanks. Apart from Logos, my (distant) second interest was that the Thrive had an HDMI port, while the iPod didn't. But, Logos comes first, so whatever runs it best is what I want.

Gary - You can connect an iPad to HDMI through the optional Digital AV Adapter. Better yet, with an Apple TV ($99), the iPad 2 can Mirror wirelessly.

 

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 24 2011 8:18 PM

Gary Shogren:
Logos comes first, so whatever runs it best is what I want.

Gary,

I am not much of an Apple fan, though I use the iPad and I love it. I also use an iphone, so maybe I am more of an Apple fan than I thought.  But I much prefer Windows to the Mac, so my laptop will always be a PC.

I suspect you are well aware of this, but the iPad does not run Logos 4, but the iPad Logos app.  The iPad is not a replacement for a laptop, and the iPad app is by no means a replacement for the full Logos.  Not even close.  What the Logos iPad app will do for you is allow you to read much (not all) of your Logos library on the tablet..  That is a wonderful thing. 

If you are looking for a tablet to run L4, the iPad will never be it.  But it does what it does pretty well.  It does crash at times, and is sometimes slow, as the Logos app is a work in progress.  But overall, I am delighted with it.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 24 2011 9:15 PM

Michael Childs:
I am not much of an Apple fan,

Sad

Michael Childs:
though I use the iPad and I love it.

Smile

Michael Childs:
I also use an iphone

Yes

Michael Childs:
so maybe I am more of an Apple fan than I thought.

Big Smile

Michael Childs:
But I much prefer Windows to the Mac, so my laptop will always be a PC.

Tongue Tied

Just curious... Have you really tried a Mac? 

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Posts 140
Gary Shogren | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:25 AM

Thanks Michael.

Another question - I don't just use Logos for the books, but for how they synch. Get I read the Greek New Testament and have it synched to a lexicon, for example?

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 11:34 AM

Gary, not sure of what you are asking, please explain.

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 140
Gary Shogren | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 12:24 PM

I can click on the Greek word and the word pops up in another book, a Greek dictionary. Does it work the same way on iPad or would I just have two unconnected books?

 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 25 2011 12:36 PM

Gary,

You must understand that the iPad app is no substitute for the desktop version. It is a portable, limited function, application that can do a lot of things but not in the integrated way that a 'real' computer can do them.

On your desktop all the resources are indexed and running - on the iPad you have to delegate serious work to the Logos servers.

Gary Shogren:

I can click on the Greek word and the word pops up in another book, a Greek dictionary. Does it work the same way on iPad or would I just have two unconnected books?

 

I opened Textus Receptus  1550 and picked a greek word at random.

If I touch and hold the word I get three options 'Copy', 'Look Up', and 'Search'.

If I select 'Look Up' I get two options, 'Search' and 'Bible Word Study'.

'Bible Word Study gives the usual Ring with the List of references in the New Testament along with a section 'Louw-Nida' and 'DBL greek'.

Hope this helps.

 

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 2903
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 7:43 AM

alabama24:

Just curious... Have you really tried a Mac? 

First, did you notice how my Dawgs whipped the Rebels for the third year in a row? And I hope to see your Crimson Tide in the National Championship game.

No, I have never owned one.  I did consider buying a Mac when I last bought a new computer, but decided to stick with Windows.  My reasons for choosing a Windows laptop is that one can get so much more for your money - hardware wise.  Also, I don't like the closed nature of most Apple products, though I use several.  I hate iTunes, but it's the price I pay for my iPhone. There is more software for Windows. And isn't the Logos 4 Mac version still somewhat inferior to Windows version?  I know when I went to Camp Logos, the Mac guys were certainly having troubles, and there were many things they just couldn't do.  Since Logos is my prime reason for wanting a computer, I want whatever runs Logos best.

My Windows PC does everything I want it to do - very fast - and is cheaper than a Mac. I would have to buy new software if I change from Windows to Mac.

Other than that, I would love a Mac.  And I do love my iPad, so I might change one day.

But perhaps I write out of ignorance. Enlighten me. What makes Mac better?

(Please excuse the large font.  I typed this in Word, and pasted it.  Can't seem to reduce the font size.)

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 8:05 AM

Gary Shogren:
Get I read the Greek New Testament and have it synched to a lexicon, for example?

Yes and No.  The Logos iPad app will not sync to a lexicon like L4 does on my laptop.  However, if you are connected to the internet, you can hold your finger on a Greek word in the NA26 Greek text (NA27 not yet on the iPad), and it will give you an option to "Lookup".  If you then tap "Lookup", it will give you the Lemma, and a Gloss definition, and the Morp.  (like noun, feminine singular genitive).  

It also gives you an option for "Bible Word Study" , which shows the different ways that word is used in the Greek New Testament with a chart, and that gives you a link to the Greek word in BDAG, or Louw-Nida with one click. 

So yes, it does sync, just a litte differently.  But it is pretty simple to go from Greek text to lexicon in a few taps on the iPad.  Very nice.

Hope this helps.  You must be connected to the internet to do this through either WIFI or 3G.

Sorry it took me so long to answer.  I failed to check this thread on the forum over Thanksgiving.  Had seven grandchildren at my house - all under 8 years old - and they kept this old man busy.  Be careful or I will pull out pictures and tell you grandchildren stories!

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 8:28 AM

People of my age grew up learning how to use a computer on an Apple. They were in all the schools. Eventually, MSFT won out because they licensed their OS to other manufacturers. This certainly allowed for "cheap" computers. It also allowed for an entire industry of fixing computers. I came to believe the lie that if 90% of the software was designed for PC's, then that is what I needed. After my 2nd $2500 computer blew up, with little to no customer service, I bought a Mac and have not looked back. 

Steve Jobs was fanatical about trying to control the entire experience of the user. It is interesting that no computer manufacturer was able to create and sustain retail stores until Apple. This is largely due to the experience that the stores offered. The portable devices are even more controlled than the Mac's. Adobe Flash is known to 1) kill battery life and 2) be susceptible to viruses. Most users would say that they want Flash on their iPhone. Apple won't budge. If Apple allowed Flash and it caused problems, it would reflect on APPLE, not ADOBE. Recently, the last nail went into the coffin - Adobe announced that it would no longer create mobile versions of Flash, but would rather work with developers to port Flash to other formats. 

On of the "advantages" of a PC is also one of its greatest weaknesses. Sure, you have choices about hardware, much greater than a Mac. This causes problems when trying to make everything compatible and WORK. It creates conflicts, which are lessened exponentially on the Mac because you have ONE manufacturer with a handful of variations. PC's have THOUSANDS. "Back in the day" I was the "go to" PC guy for anyone in the church. It drove me crazy to sit down at someone else's computer with all the "junk ware" that was installed by Gateway, Dell, HP, E-Machines, etc. I can sit down at any Mac and have a good feel for how things should work. Not true on a PC.

Mac's have the best OS (which is frequently copied by MSFT), and some of the best hardware on the market (there are other good computers, but Mac's are among the best in hardware across the board). In addition, Mac's are just FUN.

There are others on the forums who can speak about the discrepancies between Logos 4 Mac/PC. I am thrilled with Logos. Do I wish it were Mac from the ground up? Yes, but I understand some of the reasons why its not. There are forum members who have been using Logos much longer than I have, but I have been very pleased with the improvements over the past year. I hope that more Mac users will come to Logos, and that Logos is able to hire more Mac developers (they are looking Smile). 

I love talking about Mac's. If you want to talk more, send me an email... I don't want us to hijack the forums too much Smile

PS - I did see that your "Dawgs" won. Congrats. Smile

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 9:19 AM

Get an iPad.

I love my iPad. No other tablet on the market truly compares. I was excited to get my hands on a Kindle Fire over this weekend only to be greatly disappointed.

Oh...and alabama24 is correct about Mac's being awesome! I switched to an iMac computer two years ago. It has never had a problem! It requires no virus protection (which means I don't have some clunky anti-virus software taking up half my RAM running in the background) and it has not slowed down any. It was a strange transition, but it was also life changing!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 10:23 AM

Mike Binks:
If you can - call in at an Apple store and have a play.

Mike - I assume that on your side of the pond,  "call in" means to "visit." Did I understand you right? In days gone by, especially in the South,  "to call on" someone was to "pay them a visit," but this language has fallen out of use in the States. 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 12:19 PM

alabama24:

Mike Binks:
If you can - call in at an Apple store and have a play.

Mike - I assume that on your side of the pond,  "call in" means to "visit." Did I understand you right? In days gone by, especially in the South,  "to call on" someone was to "pay them a visit," but this language has fallen out of use in the States. 

 

From the Concise Oxford English Dictionary... for 'Call'

 

  ■ noun

  4       a brief visit.

Soanes, C., & Stevenson, A. (2004). Concise Oxford English dictionary (11th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Strange how many Americans have given up speaking English!

 

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 12:35 PM

Mike Binks:

Strange how many Americans have given up speaking English!

 

<with a slightly slurred drawl> WE speak uh-MER'can . . .

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 12:52 PM

Michael Childs:
My reasons for choosing a Windows laptop is that one can get so much more for your money - hardware wise.

If looking for a 17" laptop, definitely concur.  However, if shopping for a 27" desktop with 2,560 x 1,440 resolution, Apple iMac is a better deal since a 27" to 30" LED monitor with 2,560 x 1,440 resolution starts at $ 899.99 (plus shipping).  The one high resolution screen is nicer to use than dual monitors due to lack of air gap between monitors so can arrange windows and Logos resources as desired.

Caveat: am aware of a 26" refurbished 1080p HDTV with LED lighting that has 1,920 x 1,080 resolution for $ 189.95 (for older eyes, easier to read than 27" iMac).

For a lightweight Ultrabook, Apple set the price with MacBook Air models in July 2011.  Other manufacturers needed $ 300 million assistance from Intel for initial factory setup to produce competitively priced models.  Some Ultrabook models that are less expensive than Apple have slower CPU (less hardware).  Reading rumors about MacBook Air refresh next year along with 15" model (suspect screen resolution would be similar to 17" laptop).

Apple does not support blu-ray media players while Windows computers do;  iTunes has download option for high definition movies, which needs reliable high speed network connection.

Michael Childs:
There is more software for Windows. And isn't the Logos 4 Mac version still somewhat inferior to Windows version?

On a Mac with Intel CPU, have option to run Windows in a Virtual Machine so can use lots of Windows software plus Mac OS X software.  Running virtual machine(s) needs more RAM and disk space.  Thankful for copy and paste between Windows virtual machine and Mac OS X.  Wiki has Logos 4 Mac => Need Logos 4 PC feature? that includes virtualization and boot camp options.

Wiki has Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity – Mac needs many improvements.  Thankful for substantial improvements over couple years; many sermons are being prepared weekly using Logos 4 Mac.

Logos 4 is resource intensive on Mac & PC – benefits from fast processor, graphics, and disk along with adequate memory (i.e. newer hardware since Logos 4 being designed for use over 5 to 8 years).

Michael Childs:
I would have to buy new software if I change from Windows to Mac.

One option may be converting Windows physical configuration to a virtual machine to run on Mac (depends on Windows licensing since some versions are not licensed to run virtually).

For Logos 4, no additional purchase needed.  For Logos 4 Read Aloud, OS X Lion has 30 voices while Windows 7 includes only one (Anna); if want more SAPI 5 voices in Windows, need to purchase them from another vendor.

Out of the box, Mac OS X includes more usable software than Windows (excluding OEM additional software that is often bundled with computers).  Ironic that Apple's mail client can use Exchange Server 2007 while Microsoft needs additional Outlook license.  Apple's Preview utility has many PDF reading and annotating capabilities (not need Abode Reader).  Likewise Mac OS X includes PDF print option.

For editing Microsoft Office documents (e.g. Word, Excel, and PowerPoint), suggest trying free LibreOffice, which has international language option for right to left editing that is missing from Microsoft Word 2011 on Mac.

Michael Childs:
Enlighten me. What makes Mac better?

Typically easier to focus on what want to do since Mac usually works along with minimal user interface changes between releases, which is different than Microsoft's approach to substantially change user interaction (look and feel) with each Windows and Office release.  Already learning about current Windows desktop becoming an application in Windows 8, which can be one of the tiles in new Metro interface, which has similar look and feel as Windows Phone 7.

Mac OS X Systems Preferences are easier to use than Windows 7 Control Panels.

Apple had an advertising campaign with Mac and PC that had me rolling on the floor laughing out loud many times while truthfully highlighting various experience differences between Mac and PC.

Mac OS X needs less care and regular maintenance than Windows (Apple has fewer software updates compared to Windows).  Apple has a corporate focus on products that are consumer friendly for use (albeit bit more challenging for developing code).  Likewise, Apple hardware retains used resale value for many years.

Thankful for options to tweak Mac OS X.  For example, OS X Lion (10.7) has grayscale icons in Finder while Snow Leopard (10.6) has colorful icons; can tweak to show colorful icons in OS X Lion.

OS X Lion has Mission Control while Leopard and Snow Leopard have Spaces.  Mission Control allows me to have many virtual desktops (optionally with different background) so windows from one application can be on their own desktop, easy to switch between desktops and applications.  In contrast, virtual desktops on Windows feels a bit kludgy; have returned to using one desktop (with lots of windows on top of each other).

Keep Smiling Smile

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 29 2011 1:19 PM

Thanks Keep Smiling and Alabama for the helpful Mac info.  Very interesting.

Sorry if we hijacked this thread.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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