Syntax search question

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 6 2012 5:20 PM

I must be brain dead, I can't figure this out. How do I search for a question in Syntax Search (any source), for example return a list of all the questions posed in "words of Jesus" in Mark? Or is morph search better for this?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2012 11:19 PM

One option is a Bible search in Words of Christ for:

if, how, however, what, where, when, who, whoever, whom, why

that includes bit more than all questions; could save results to a passage list, then remove verses lacking questions.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 12:05 AM

I would choose Louw-Nida subdomains in relation to Question, Answer(33.180-188) and  Markers for Responses to Questions (69.11-16)

The Bible Search would be over WOC:-

<LN 69.11-16>, <LN 33.180-188>

Remove non-questions from 209 results in ESV.

EDIT: 209 in Gospels.

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Fredc | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 4:43 AM

There is also this resource available http://www.logos.com/product/1171/all-the-questions-in-the-bible

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 5:19 AM

I think that doing a morphological search (within the Gospels) that looks like this will give you all of the questions.

@BI @RI @TI

You would then need to narrow the results to the words of Christ. I haven't figured out how to get that to work with a morphological search.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 5:31 AM

Jonathan:
I haven't figured out how to get that to work with a morphological search.

The short answer is that it doesn't. The words of Christ tagging is on the English layer while the Morph search is a different layer. This can be overcome with a clever use of proximity and wildcard operators but is prohibitively slow.

As a work around some have made passage lists based off of the Words of Christ tagging that can be used to limit searches. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/16724/126565.aspx has a txt file which can be imported into a passage list for that use (there's other threads on this too).

Every so often people want to search for questions and it's just not the type of search Logos does well.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 6:41 AM

Fred Chapman:

Apart from the usefulness of this resource - which somehow seems to escape me, given the author-acknowledged differences between various translations and the lack of further classification (like: who asked, who was asked, intention of the question ...) - I thought that his reduced-scientific approach should be "doable" in Logos as well: as per the biblia-powered resource preview he states "I’ve simply gathered all verses from the KJV ending with question marks. The total number of questions in the KJV is 3,297. In the Old Testament there are 2,273 questions, the largest number found in Job. Only Zephaniah has no questions. In the New Testament there are 1,024 questions, the largest number found in Matthew.

I thought, this should be easy for Logos, the whole book is just a Passage List from a Bible Search for ? in the KJV. Very well, but how does one search for ?, given the fact that it works as a search wildcard?

A search for ? alone gives all verses that contain one-character-words like "I" or "a". Putting the ? in qutation marks as "?" doesn't help. Neither does putting the tilde before it ~? like in the wiki-syntax. The wiki http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Wildcards has no information on turning off the wildcard-functionality.

Is this at all possible?

 

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 6:44 AM

NewbieMick:
Is this at all possible?

To the best of my knowledge Logos' index does not catalog punctuation, it is word based. Unfortunately the answer is no.

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Fredc | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:13 AM

Kevin Becker:

NewbieMick:
Is this at all possible?

To the best of my knowledge Logos' index does not catalog punctuation, it is word based. Unfortunately the answer is no.

That is my understanding as well

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:28 AM

Kevin Becker:
As a work around some have made passage lists based off of the Words of Christ tagging that can be used to limit searches. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/16724/126565.aspx has a txt file which can be imported into a passage list for that use (there's other threads on this too).

 

Thanks for the tip! I used the TXT file and created a Words of Christ Verses Passage List in Mark, then did a Morph search for @TI PR @RI OR @BI in Mark and got 53 passages.

The only verses that did not actually ask a question were (using ESV translation):

Mark 8:2

Mark 11:29

Mark 11:33

Mark 13:11

Mark 14:36

These all appeared to have interrogative adverbs, pronouns, or particles without a question actually being asked.

One verse where question was not caught (there may be more, wasn't easy to validate this) - Mark 11:30

So there appear to be 49 passages with a question posed by Jesus. Interesting exercise to work with. Thanks for the help all!

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:31 AM

Kevin Becker:

Jonathan:
I haven't figured out how to get that to work with a morphological search.

The short answer is that it doesn't. The words of Christ tagging is on the English layer while the Morph search is a different layer. This can be overcome with a clever use of proximity and wildcard operators but is prohibitively slow.

As a work around some have made passage lists based off of the Words of Christ tagging that can be used to limit searches. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/16724/126565.aspx has a txt file which can be imported into a passage list for that use (there's other threads on this too).

Every so often people want to search for questions and it's just not the type of search Logos does well.

I believe I finally found a way to complete this search, but as you mentioned above it is somewhat complex.

First, I performed this morphological seach: All Morph Text in Gospels in NA27 w/GRAMCORD with GRAMCORD Greek Morphology for @C[CGSG] OR @O[AGIG] OR @TG

Second, I saved the results as a passage list entitled "Questions in the Gospels"

Third, I performed a "weird-catch-all" step. This step is needed to define a search to find at least one word from all the verses in the passage list. I tried using the wildcard * but the search never finished. So I did this:

I performed this Bible search: All Bible Text in Questions in the Gospels [*note: this is my saved passagee list from the morphological search] in English Standard Version for and OR a OR the OR an OR not OR how OR why OR what OR with OR was OR Jesus OR than OR other OR one OR he OR she OR it OR you

It took my a while to get all the verses. I basically merged (using the symmetric difference merge) the initial results with the passage list "questions in the Gospels" so I could add words that would catch the missing words.

After I was sure that the number of verses equaled the number of results in my passage list I changed the search parameter All Bible Text to Words of Christ

Fourth, I saved the results as a passage list entitled "Questions by Christ in the Gospels"

And that did it!

 

 

 

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:34 AM

Dominick Sela:

So there appear to be 49 passages with a question posed by Jesus. Interesting exercise to work with. Thanks for the help all!

My updated search above returned 262 verses.

I will see if I can merge these two results and see what is missing or added from our different results.

 

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:43 AM

Jonathan:

Dominick Sela:

So there appear to be 49 passages with a question posed by Jesus. Interesting exercise to work with. Thanks for the help all!

My updated search above returned 262 verses.

I will see if I can merge these two results and see what is missing or added from our different results.

Silly me... I didn't notice that you were talking about just the Gospel of Mark!

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:43 AM

Dave Hooton:

I would choose Louw-Nida subdomains in relation to Question, Answer(33.180-188) and  Markers for Responses to Questions (69.11-16)

The Bible Search would be over WOC:-

<LN 69.11-16>, <LN 33.180-188>

Remove non-questions from 209 results in ESV.

EDIT: 209 in Gospels.

I tried this one too, in Mark. It missed these verses:

Mark 2.8, 2.9, 2.19, 2.25, 2.26,3.23, 4.13, 4.24, 4.30, 4.40, 5.30, 5.31, 5.39, 8.12, 8.17, 8.19, 8.20, 8.36, 8.37, 9.12, 9.50, 10.18, 10.36, 10.38, 11.3, 12.9, 12.15, 12.16, 12.35, 12.37, 14.6, 14.14, 15.34

Maybe there is an additional LN range to add to the query to grab these - like LN 92.14-16 for one. However, I tried adding this LN range and I got a lot more false positives.

There were some reported incorrectly especially not being able to track Words of Christ. However, it caught these  that the other method missed:

Mark 6.3, 8.23, 10.24, 12.26.

Between these two approaches I may have them all!?!?!?  Thanks again all!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 7:49 AM

Kevin Becker:
As a work around some have made passage lists based off of the Words of Christ tagging that can be used to limit searches. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/16724/126565.aspx has a txt file which can be imported into a passage list for that use (there's other threads on this too).

One way to create a Passage List for Words of Christ is a Bible search for:

about,after,again,also,among,and,at,because,between,but,by,either,even,every, for,from,if,in,into,it,let,like,meanwhile,more,near,neither,nor,now,of,on,or,since,so, that,then,there,thereby,therefore,these,this,those,through,to,towards,under,until, unto,up,versus,what,whatever,which,when,while,who,whoever,whom,whose,with,yet

then save search results as a Passage List (takes awhile to save 2,012 verses):  Edit: removing Bible versions from passage list improves performance.

Note: NRSV and NLT have Words of Christ tagging in 1 Timothy 5:18 while ESV and NRSV have tagging in Acts 10:13, 10:15, 11:7, and 11:9 ...

Edit: text export from created Passage List (without any Bible versions)

3823.Words_of_Christ_in_Bible_Grid_Favorites.txt

Text file can be added to a Passage List; suggest removing all Bible Versions before adding 2,012 verses.

- - - - - - -

Then can use morph search with Passage List:

@BI OR @RI OR @TI

My reply in thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/41004/306098.aspx#306098 has a screen shot showing my Bible Grid Favorites collection with mytag:BibleGrid rule that can compare more Bibles than "Top 5 Bibles" (especially for Bible search Grid results).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2012 2:28 PM

Dominick Sela:
Maybe there is an additional LN range to add to the query to grab these - like LN 92.14-16 for one.

That was the range I subsequently added to my query.

Dominick Sela:

There were some reported incorrectly especially not being able to track Words of Christ. However, it caught these  that the other method missed:

Mark 6.3, 8.23, 10.24, 12.26.

Mk 6:3? Not WOC.

But it also picks up Mk 11:30

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 24 2012 10:52 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Then can use morph search with Passage List:

@BI OR @RI OR @TI

Personally living and learning that adding @BC OR @ CAC to Morph Search

@BI OR @RI OR @TI OR @BC OR @CAC 

finds many more questions:

Likewise learned morphological tagging in Mk 10.24 and Mk 12.26 has B instead of BI (reported typo's with comment about morphological tagging).

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Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2018 2:56 AM

A few years later, now, you can run this search: {Section <Sentence = Interrogative>} WITHIN {Speaker <Person Jesus>}.

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