New Interpreter's Bible (12 Vols.) - Pre-Publication Examples

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Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 5:31 AM

I guess I dont understand how the forums work completely.  Why would someone get emails if they didn't subscribe?

As for Logos, they often browse tge forums and weigh in on various threads ... those with catchy titles and those without.  This one has come up to the top often enough you'd think it would be obvious it's a topic people have strong opinions about.

Not sure why you're being snarky fgh, I was only trying to help.

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 8:43 AM

Rev Chris:
Why would someone get emails if they didn't subscribe?

I didn't say he didn't subscribe. I said he was extremely unlikely to have subscribed by clicking the link in this particular thread, which is the only way you can get the 'stop' link. Most likely he does what I do: subscribe to the whole General forum. No way to exclude individual threads then.

Rev Chris:
This one has come up to the top often enough you'd think it would be obvious it's a topic people have strong opinions about.

Obvious how? They have very limited time for browsing the forums, so I think there's a pretty good chance that they've either just looked at the heading and concluded that it's about getting support for a prepub, or they've opened it a couple of times, found yet another of Dan's excerpts, drawn the same conclusion, and decided that it's no thread they need to open again.

Yes, it happens that they turn up on threads you'd never expect them to, but it's rare. If you want their attention it's more constructive to do something to get it (either by starting a new thread with a better title, or by notifying someone about the present thread), than to criticize them for not answering posts there's a good chance they've never seen.

Rev Chris:
Not sure why you're being snarky fgh, I was only trying to help.

And I who thought it was you who was being 'snarky', towards George and towards Logos, and I who was trying to help. Go figure!Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 8:53 AM

fgh:

Most likely he does what I do: subscribe to the whole General forum. No way to exclude individual threads then.

Well, if you subscribe to the General forum, then I guess you're probably used to getting a bunch of emails of posts you could care less about.  That's no reason to tell users to stop posting on a thread, though, if that thread is important to them.  I thank Dan for the work he's done on this thread - it's gotten us a lot closer to moving this product to contract-status than would have been the case if it had never started.

fgh:

Yes, it happens that they turn up on threads you'd never expect them to, but it's rare. If you want their attention it's more constructive to do something to get it (either by starting a new thread with a better title, or by notifying someone about the present thread), than to criticize them for not answering posts there's a good chance they've never seen.

It was more of a lament than a criticism.  But, you have a point.

fgh:

And I who thought it was you who was being 'snarky', towards George and towards Logos, and I who was trying to help. Go figure!Big Smile

That was certainly not my intent - if it came across that way, I'm sorry.  I guess that's part of the problem with forums - you lose the 90% of communication that is non-verbal.

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 28 2012 11:02 AM

So much for the grand advice saying if we started a new thread clearly asking we would get a response. It would be one thing to say something like, "We are not going to be deviating from our standard prepub system, we will be placing it under contract when 94 more orders are placed." But we have got nothing. These are the things that frustrate us. YES MANY OF US WANT THE NIB NOW, but we understand there is a process, we just want to hear from Logos about the details. How close are we really. Is there anything practically we can do to help.

-Dan

PS I now this is a triplicate just hoping to get some attention from someone at logos...

PPS: My apologies to George for the unwanted emails in your in box, if we could actually get Logos to tell us something we would find it easier to be patient or to do what Logos advised us, the last thing i heard from Logos is keep encouraging people to purchase it, so it is all i can do. Were I some millionaire and could purchase a copy for every anglican parish in Alberta, I would, but I am not, I am just a frustrated crippled man, wishing to do what i can, knowing how much this set has blessed me, wishing it for others. I know Siduh Sunder Sing wrote about the kindly mother who makes many currys each to the tastes and needs of her children, and I do realize this work is not to everyones taste, but it has so many varied and wonderful flavours  I can not help but try encourage others to taste and see.

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 6:15 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Noticed "Almost there!" progress change => http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible yet still needs more pre-orders to change status to "Under Development"

Keep Smiling Smile

http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible

What happened? The progress bar on the NIB is back down to barely over half!

I don't have a personal interest in this yet since I can't afford it, but with all the effort Dan has put into getting this set into Logos it's a shame to see that they've increased the required number of preorders. At this point, they owe him and all others with preorders at least some sort of communication.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 6:23 PM

mitchellisdumb:
I don't have a personal interest in this yet since I can't afford it, but with all the effort Dan has put into getting this set into Logos it's a shame to see that they've increased the required number of preorders. At this point, they owe him and all others with preorders at least some sort of communication.

Perhaps he's simply persuaded them to withdraw their bids.  Hmm

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1660
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 6:33 PM

mitchellisdumb:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Noticed "Almost there!" progress change => http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible yet still needs more pre-orders to change status to "Under Development"

Keep Smiling Smile

http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible

What happened? The progress bar on the NIB is back down to barely over half!

I don't have a personal interest in this yet since I can't afford it, but with all the effort Dan has put into getting this set into Logos it's a shame to see that they've increased the required number of preorders. At this point, they owe him and all others with preorders at least some sort of communication.

More information can be found here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53532/391813.aspx#391813

 

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 74
Ralph Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 6:36 PM

George Somsel:
Perhaps he's simply persuaded them to withdraw their bids.  Hmm

We have a momentous occasion ! George actually said something funny.

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 11:41 PM

Ralph Hale:

George Somsel:
Perhaps he's simply persuaded them to withdraw their bids.  Hmm

We have a momentous occasion ! George actually said something funny.

I have seen George say several funny things…. on propose… ;) It's a sad thing that things are so far behind and numbers i was told buy Abingdon make no sense. I know Logos is extensively tagged and is not a simple etext, but to do up the text in Logos format costing over a $100,000 seems very expensive, and that being the case I can see why some of Logos items are outsourced to india. At over $8 a page for simple prep it truly amazes me anything gets published in Logos.

-Dan

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 11:56 PM

Dan Francis:
It's a sad thing that things are so far behind and numbers i was told buy Abingdon make no sense. I know Logos is extensively tagged and is not a simple etext, but to do up the text in Logos format costing over a $100,000 seems very expensive, and that being the case I can see why some of Logos items are outsourced to india. At over $8 a page for simple prep it truly amazes me anything gets published in Logos.

$8/ page seems very reasonale.  I had to reinstall my OS and therefore all of my programs recently.  This therefore also meant that I had to reconstruct my docx files for my PBs.  I have therefore been working on Oecumenius' commentary on Revelation.  I can tell you unequivocally that $8/page is dirt cheap.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10311
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:41 AM

Well, I wish those resource premium prices actually translated to tagging. I've no doubt Logos could release the NIB with 2/3's of the tagging missing, along with various typos and still be well within their normal production standards. I'm a broken record but a 'curated Logos library' I'd think should include the basics such as this product. I can find it (the older version) at our used book store out in the rural area of Arizona, it's so pervasive (probably why Abingdon isn't jumping through hoops for Logos).


Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 6:51 AM

DMB:

Well, I wish those resource premium prices actually translated to tagging. I've no doubt Logos could release the NIB with 2/3's of the tagging missing, along with various typos and still be well within their normal production standards. I'm a broken record but a 'curated Logos library' I'd think should include the basics such as this product. I can find it (the older version) at our used book store out in the rural area of Arizona, it's so pervasive (probably why Abingdon isn't jumping through hoops for Logos).

Yeah, I remember it from … was it actually HS?  I was not overly impressed with it then and I have no reason to expect that the new version will be a dramatic improvement.

Checking reveals that it wasn't published when I was in HS.  By the time this was published the wheel had been invented.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:12 AM

George Somsel:
I was not overly impressed with it then
After a lifetime of a disciplined lifestyle and the aches and pains of maturity, us older guys tend to be uh.....uh.....well.. direct.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 10311
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:15 AM

True, but the pages are a soft beige with special yellows of aging on the edges and a light scent associated with the gulf states in the late summer (when your house absolutely will not 'dry out').


Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 7:27 AM

Jerry M:
us older guys

Speak for yourself, Jerry.  I'm still a young tadpole.  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 3 2012 10:47 AM

George Somsel:

Dan Francis:
It's a sad thing that things are so far behind and numbers i was told buy Abingdon make no sense. I know Logos is extensively tagged and is not a simple etext, but to do up the text in Logos format costing over a $100,000 seems very expensive, and that being the case I can see why some of Logos items are outsourced to india. At over $8 a page for simple prep it truly amazes me anything gets published in Logos.

$8/ page seems very reasonale.  I had to reinstall my OS and therefore all of my programs recently.  This therefore also meant that I had to reconstruct my docx files for my PBs.  I have therefore been working on Oecumenius' commentary on Revelation.  I can tell you unequivocally that $8/page is dirt cheap.

I suppose the etext is already tagged with page numbers and is virtually error free (haven't seen any), if the pages were being manually typed in I suppose $8.60+ a page sounds reasonable but wen you have a good eTEXT to start with seems high to me, anyway they will do what they do…. I would love to see NIB in Logos but suppose I will just have to wait till it comes out in Accordance (no final contracts there yet either that I know of but there at least I know they are actively pursuing it, and not waiting for some massive amount of pre orders to arrive before proceeding).

-Dan

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2012 10:38 AM

Hi Dan, I am wondering if you could share what the NIB has concerning Mark 10:17-31.  Thanks

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2012 3:54 PM

Sure… I am disillusioned with Logos handling of the NIB issue… but will share the info...

Mark 10:17-22, The Rich Man

Link to:  

COMMENTARY

The story of the rich man who turns down the invitation to discipleship illustrates the fact that desire for wealth can stifle the seed sown by the Word (4:19). The rich man addresses Jesus as “Good Teacher” when asking what is required to inherit eternal life (v. 17). Jesus immediately switches the focus from himself to God: “No one is good but God alone” (v. 18). Jesus is not imposing his word on that of God.418 Jesus does not replace God in any way, but represents the coming of God’s rule. God’s order for human life has already been revealed in the commandments. Reference to God as the only one who is good recalls the opening of the Decalogue (Deut 5:6). The Decalogue, which has figured in two earlier controversy stories (7:9-13; 10:11-12), serves as a summary of the Law. Another acclamation of the sovereignty of God introduces a formulation of the command to love God (Deut 6:4-5).419 The rich man states that he has followed all of the commandments from the time he was a young man (v. 20). Jesus’ response, “looking at him, loved him” (v. 21), gives the reader no reason to doubt the truth of the man’s claim. Readers understand that Jesus knows the unspoken thoughts of those around him.

Jesus then extends to the man the call to join his circle of disciples. To do so, he must first divest himself of his property; the disciple-missionary possesses only the basic items of clothing (6:9).420 A disciple cannot be a rich person with all the accompanying complex socioeconomic ties and relationships. This invitation also illustrates the earlier saying about becoming like a child insofar 

 

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as it requires setting aside all the elements that confer status and power over others. Even the man’s exemplary piety might have been rewarded with approval by others who witnessed it (cf. Matt 6:1-18).421 Despite the rich man’s sincere devotion to the Word of God, he cannot bring himself to accept the call. The sadness with which he departs distinguishes him from the enemies of Jesus, who are hostile when they leave, and suggests that he had hoped for some association with Jesus. Yet he cannot let go of the socioeconomic prestige of being a “rich man” in order to be a disciple. Ironically, the arguments about greatness among the disciples suggest that they might prefer a form of discipleship that would permit them to have some form of prestige or influence as well.

REFLECTIONS

1. Readers respond to this story differently, depending on their socioeconomic status. For some, the story is discouraging. If someone who had been committed to living justly and had experienced Jesus’ love walks away sad, who can follow Jesus? For others, the story is encouraging. It explains the difficulty they have in dealing with wealthy people regarding some issues of Christian social teaching. Even well-meaning wealthy persons may balk at taking stands on behalf of the poor or oppressed if it costs them power or prestige.

2. It is easy to suppose that the story of the rich man illustrates an actual event in the life of Jesus. It calls to mind the commitment of unusual persons like St. Francis of Assisi, who stripped himself of every stitch of the rich clothing his cloth merchant father had given him, or Mother Teresa, who gave up a “comfortable life” in a religious order to help those abandoned to die on the streets of Calcutta. Such saints are not “loners.” Others join their vision and enrich the world. Like Jesus and his disciples, those who give up everything enter into a special relationship with the rest of the community: They depend on the hospitality described in Jesus’ instructions to his disciples (6:7-13).

3. If we are not called to such radical sacrifice, we are constantly reminded of the generous hospitality practiced in the early Christian communities. All Christians should think seriously about their stewardship of money and material possessions. Resisting the pressures of a consumer culture, which generates perpetual needs for more and newer possessions, is difficult for many Christians today. Our excess consumption may deprive others of resources they need just to survive. It is a hidden form of structural greed that wastes the world’s resources and creates suffering for others we may never meet.

Mark 10:23-31, Wealth and Discipleship

Link to:   

 

 

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COMMENTARY

The story shifts from the public encounter to Jesus’ instructions to the disciples. These sayings highlight the conflict between wealth and discipleship. The ancient patronage system in which the wealthy were celebrated as communal benefactors made it appear that the local aristocracy was endowed with wealth and power by God, the divine king and patron. The wealthy provided funds to support synagogues and Temple sacrifices, thus exhibiting their special relationship to the divine. The OT prophets constantly challenged the assumption that God cared about such lavish worship in the absence of justice and concern for the poor and weak (cf. Isa 1:12-23). Nevertheless, people naturally assumed that the wealthy elite were closer to God and more likely to be saved than were the common people. Jesus’ lament that it is very difficult for persons with such attitudes to experience God’s saving power (“enter the kingdom”) is an explosive shock (vv. 23-24a).422

The proverbial comment about a camel’s passing through the eye of a needle (v. 25) provides the metaphorical intensification of the point typical of the sayings of Jesus.423 Although the disciples have left home and occupations to follow Jesus (1:18, 20), they are astonished by this example. “Then who can be saved?” they ask Jesus (v. 26).424 Jesus’ reply invokes a theological maxim that will reappear in the discussion of prayer (11:22-24): “For God all things are possible” (v. 27). Jesus also repeats this affirmation during his own prayer in Gethsemane (14:36). This axiom was well known in antiquity, in which stock examples of impossible things could be used to contrast the fixed world of nature and human experience with the divine; prophetic oracles, such as Jer 13:23 and Isa 49:15, use this rhetorical device. Humanly speaking, the situation in question is impossible, but God’s power is not limited by 

 

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such constraints.425 Jesus’ miracles demonstrate that he possesses the power of God to do things that are otherwise impossible. The exchange between Jesus and the father of the possessed boy in Mark 9:22-24 insisted upon faith in Jesus’ power to perform such a miracle. In this passage, the disciples’ incredulous “If the rich can’t be saved, no one can” is turned around. God can save even the rich—that is, get the camel through the needle’s eye. Therefore, God can save anyone.

Despite their astonishment at what Jesus has said, the disciples, as described by Peter, have left everything to follow Jesus (v. 28). Jesus replies as though the statement was a question about the reward that will come from such renunciation (vv. 29-30). The saying reassures the disciples that what they have renounced will be replaced by the new Christian family in both the present life and the eternal life to come.426 Jesus himself depicts those who “do the will of God” as his mother, brothers, and sisters (3:35). His home village of Nazareth has been replaced by Capernaum and his family house by that of Peter. Disciples were sent out to preach with the instruction to accept the hospitality of the first house to take them in (6:10). Those who give disciples even a glass of water will be rewarded (9:41). Therefore, the promise that what has been renounced will be replaced a hundred-fold in this life does not imply a return to one’s previous socioeconomic situation.

Renunciation takes primary place for Jesus and Mark’s Gospel. The rewards in this life involve both the benefits of inclusion in the new family gathered around Jesus and the hardship of persecutions. Mark unexpectedly inserts persecutions into the list of “goods” that are repaid a hundredfold (v. 30). Persecutions were to be expected as long as Christians are witnessing to the gospel in the world. Mark does not trivialize the pain or danger of persecution. It costs people their faith (4:17). If God had not shortened the time of the persecutions, no one would survive (13:20). Mark’s church has been marked by the persecution and turmoil of the 60s CE, when Nero martyred Christians in Rome, including Peter and Paul. Those in Palestine were caught between Jews and their pagan neighbors when Jews initiated a revolt against Rome. Jesus has already warned that following him requires disciples to take up their cross (8:34-35). Jesus is leading his disciples toward Jerusalem and his own death.

The series concludes with an independent reversal saying, which already appeared in the dispute over greatness (9:35). Both in the present and in the future, earthly measures of power and status do not apply in the kingdom of God. Every example in the chapter has involved some reversal of the normal human understanding of greatness. Jesus is about to remind the disciples of the one reversal for which they are still unprepared: his own death.

REFLECTIONS

1. This collection of sayings provides an important example of how the apparent impossibility of renouncing all things to follow Jesus can be both possible and even rewarding. The key lies in Christianity as a new community, the “family” gathered around Jesus. Christians should also recognize that their faithfulness to the gospel is God’s gift. The same God has called together the community and even those non-believing benefactors who provide crucial assistance.

2. Those who find it difficult to enter such a community may resist renouncing power and prestige and the ability to dictate the behavior of others as much as wealth. Interviews with millionaire philanthropists in the United States have revealed that power and influence, the ability to get things done, is generally mentioned as the greatest advantage of wealth. The church as a family of disciples cannot permit those standards of influence to distinguish one person from another.

3. Today’s culture is so saturated with the demand for pleasure and instant gratification 

 

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that Jesus’ words about suffering often strike people as sour grapes. It is significant that Mark has inserted the word persecutions into the list of goods that Christians will receive from God. Perhaps one of the best proofs that Christianity is not a projection of unrealistic psychological wishes is the realism with which it speaks about the world and the life of those who bear witness to the gospel. Christians do not hide from evil or suffering. They overcome those realities through loving service.

Posts 10311
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2012 4:56 PM

This is unbelievably off-topic (but related to Dan's post). We were in Abiquiu New Mexico to see their internationally known vortex hotspot (Abiquiu is basically a crossroads in the Chama river valley). Well the little hotel there had a nice monk's beer (literally) of which we learned there was an abbey nearby (out in the middle of nowhere). And the gift shop had a really nice statue of Saint Francis. The statue somehow followed us home and we sanded him down a bit for placement in our livingroom. Interesting to think about Saint Francis.


Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 6 2012 3:08 AM

Dan Francis:
I am disillusioned with Logos handling of the NIB issue
So am I
Dan Francis:
but will share the info...
Thanks

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