Logos-5---?

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Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 7 2012 10:27 AM

L5 seems to be increasing in conversation. Even Bob, with all he posts has made commenting gestures that it is fast approaching.

So my question would be along the lines of us current L4 users, and yes I still have L3 loaded and still use it from time to time,:

When L5 does appear to be available, those of us with L4 and resources dedicated to the same, Are we going to receive this version as an ‘upgrade’ with no cost, or as an ‘update’ with no cost? I ask because L4 has only been around a few years and there are some still using L3 who have not gone to L4…..

I won’t take it for granted, but I would think that this decision is already in the making at Logos HQ, and that it is going to be a tough one to make – so to speak.

But I think that we should cast some light on what we as current users would like – if only to let HQ know how we currently view an up and coming change to our existing L4………………There has already been some discussion on the forums, but not concerning this issue.........

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Posts 3701
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 10:51 AM

Room4More,

Though I'm not Logos, I've been onboard since v 1.6. Unless they completely abandon their philosophy, the s/w is always free. We buy the resources & get whatever s/w we need to use them. That means we may or may not have some tools, depending on whether we have the resources.

That explains the addition of resources (the graphical adds) we needed to make L4 pop. But none of us HAD to make that minimal crossgrade. We could've still installed the new L4 s/w without it.

I'd be VERY surprised if you aren't delighted by their answer to your question. I'm just sayin'...

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
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Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:00 AM

If we take a look at the L4 release and take it for granted that the L5 will be similar, here's what I think we can expect:

  1. The base "Engine" will be free
  2. "Base Package" Cross-grade (paid) for non-resource related feature/tool upgrade (less then $100 today)
  3. "Base Package" Upgrade (paid) for feature/tool and resource related upgrade (price depends on package)

The L4 base engine allows someone who has only free resources to use:

  • Resources: the LEB and SBL Greek NT
  • Highlighting
  • Notes
  • Personal Books
  • Visual Filters
  • Text Comparison
  • Basic and Bible Search
  • Search derived Charts/Graphics
  • Passage Guide's "Interesting Words"
  • Copy Bible Verses (special formatted copy and paste)
  • Power Lookup
  • and Cited by

All with NO price whatsoever today.

If you were to act today, you could get the ESV or HCSB for $10 and have a pretty darn good base bible study package for your mobile devices and desktop. 

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:01 AM

Bill, 

Thanks for being the first.

If memory serves me correctly, yes you could download the L4 engine and it would run. But to get the full ‘pop’ there was a small fee associated with the real upgrade/update to which I had no problems with. In doing so I also recieved the upgrade for the package that I currently have and this added an extra 'pop' to L4.

The same applies here as well, personally I would have no problems with a small fee to help cover some of the development costs, but in the same voice it will still be nice to get the crossover for free..........

R4m.

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Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:07 AM

Mike, 

Whilst this may be true, wouldn't that be like having a VolksWagen and putting an RR emblem on it and calling it a Porche?

There is really no comparison when it comes to having paid a small fee to get the full value of the upgrade. Ok, so we end up getting the engine - where's the door handle to let us really in?

R4m

[[[edit: I am not lobbying for HQ, just wanting to get an honest opinion....]]]

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:16 AM

Room4more:
When L5 does appear to be available, those of us with L4 and resources dedicated to the same, Are we going to receive this version as an ‘upgrade’ with no cost, or as an ‘update’ with no cost? I ask because L4 has only been around a few years and there are some still using L3 who have not gone to L4…..

I expect this will be an upgrade (not an update), since historically version number changes are seen as upgrades.

I expect there will be some small(er) crossgrade charge, and that it will be well worth the increase in value to us users, as this has also been the historic pattern.

I also expect some new base package deals, and while I would dare to only speculate, I would think that there could be a greater variety of base packages, and possibly a level somewhere between Platinum and Portfolio. I also expect that the cost for upgrading will be so amazingly tempting that few will resist the opportunity to upgrade to the next higher level.

As for the notion that the program is free, well, only the basic engine is free. Other parts of the program require the crossgrade (at least) to function. Let's be clear about that. There is no way you can get the full functionality of Logos4 (or Libronix) without at least the minimal crossgrade and/or a base package. This will also be the case with L5, I expect.

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:22 AM

Thanks, Richard.

But lest we forget, most of the conversation has been greatly along the lines of 'reinventing the wheel', basically a re-introduction of what has/have been displaced by going from L3 to L4.

How does this define an "upgrade"? Especially when the talk has been along the lines of a re-implamentation of features?

R4m

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 11:52 AM

R4m, based on history and the signals we're getting from Logos my take is...

L3 to L4 was a radical shift. It involved a complete redesign of the software. L5 will not be that; instead it will be an evolution of L4. Expect to see some big new features (which may or may not require you to buy extra resources/upgrade base packages to use) to be introduced at that time. But, the core engine should look and feel very much the same or have some minor cosmetic reworking.

In short, expect an upgrade on the software and an update of the base packages offered (some books will be added, some removed).

When it comes to the "missing features" or features desired by users, Logos has its priorities on what it thinks is best from its analysis of the market. Different users have different levels of satisfaction with the way Logos is working on its program and I can't imagine that there will any abating of that debate.

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 12:01 PM

"Upgrade" and "Update" have absolutely no consistent pure definitions in the software industry. Within my company, your first purchase, plus 23% of that purchase every year entitle you to "upgrades", "updates", "patches", etc... all essentially terms that have to do with the level of change or difference, but TOTALLY inconsistent once you get down to the details. 

They also tend to change over time even within a company and over a company's products. 

I'd be willing to bet that no solid decisions have been made... of course, everyone wants it all for free. 

You're basically asking questions that have to do with market positioning that we have no involvement in as users, and I personally just don't care as long as it is equitable, fair and makes sense. If not, we all have options, the easiest is to just stick with L4 until it makes sense to you. 

I could be wrong, if so, what question are you really asking?

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 12:12 PM

 Thanks, Kevin,

Yes, I agree with the major move from 3 to 4 - it took me a while to figure somethings out, and am hoping that L5 will just be a cosmetic adjustment or as you say an evloving of 4, which to me qualifies as an update not an upgrade.[that would make all that hard work for the wiki's almost useless for L5 - thats a LOT of work!!!]

When I went from 3 to 4, I did/do consider that an 'upgrade'. So I do not think that I should have to buy/purchase new resources to make L5 function, like the change I recieved for L4, it has alreay been established that resources are being made for L4, why should these need adjustment for L5 - unless L5 incorporates a completely NEW programming engine, I suspect not. ---should we need to 'upgrade/update' base packages that we already have, hmmm, that should not be, that takes L5 out of being an update and into a serious upgrade.....

[your last needs no comment, thanks.]

**********

Mike, I don't follow/? L3 to L4 was a serious UPGRADE, remember the resources are fading out for being useable in L3 to L4.....that constitutes an upgrade, well to me and I think others as well[if you buy them now then they are useless in L3(or soooon will be) -correct?

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Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 1:27 PM

Mike brings up an interesting statement in regards to upgrade vs update.

So for clarity this is how I understand it:

Upgrade:

When I purchased L4 it installed alongside of L3, allowing me to run either program or both simultaneously. It also performed a reinstallation/download of my resources and making a NEW resource folder, so I have double named resources but some will not work reversely.

Update:

The L5 performs an overwrite of the existing L4, re-indexes due to program changes and prepares my current L4 resources to function in the re-issued / evolved program.

Upgrade:

L5 installs independently of L4 with me now having L3, L4 AND L5. Which now runs and performs totally independently of either L3 or L4, and allows importing of Layouts and notes, etc., etc. from either previous versions.

Do I now have three different locations of resource folders?

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Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 1:48 PM

Room4more:

Do I now have three different locations of resource folders?

No, because in L5 everything will be on the cloud, and they will have figured out a super-high compression algorithm to make downloading super-quick and seamless, and when you're offline it will link up to your cell-phone to make a 3g download of resources.  Or maybe that's L6? Stick out tongue

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 2:10 PM

Rev Chris:

No, because in L5 everything will be on the cloud, and they will have figured out a super-high compression algorithm to make downloading super-quick and seamless, and when you're offline it will link up to your cell-phone to make a 3g download of resources.  Or maybe that's L6? Stick out tongue

 

Thanks, Rev Chris.

BUT-

I see that as being virtually detrimental to Logos. Why? well if I loose my internet connection or go to where there is little to none, then L5 becomes a useless data dump of complete nothingness and totlally absolutely useless for anything other than a dream of a paper-weight. Noteing that your cell becomes another wanna-be pipe dream as well - who ya gonna call with no service?

The cloud has just floated away!

/?

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 2:59 PM

Rev Chris:
Or maybe that's L6? Stick out tongue

No that's the release that will include the time travel add-on. We will no longer have to study and try to interpret what Paul wrote; we will just transport back and ask him. 

If you have an aversion of time travel you could go with the original language package that will, simply by having it on your computer, make you fluent in it.  I think that is a joint effort between Logos and Microsoft

The note function will still be lackingWink

Posts 3701
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 3:13 PM

Fredc:

the release that will include the time travel add-on. We will no longer have to study and try to interpret what Paul wrote; we will just transport back and ask him. 

If you have an aversion of time travel you could go with the original language package that will, simply by having it on your computer, be fluent in it.

I'm holding out for this update/upgrade/release/new software/version.. Big SmileCoolGeekedCoolBig Smile

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 5:38 PM

Interesting; Surely this is not part of the components of L5. This would definitely woo many away from getting it.

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 6:50 PM

Room4more:

Do I now have three different locations of resource folders?

Why do you want to have three different versions installed?

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 7 2012 7:22 PM

Mike S.:

Room4more:

Do I now have three different locations of resource folders?

Why do you want to have three different versions installed?

 

I don't want three, what would be the purpose of that?

*******************************EDIT***************

Come to think of it, should L5 install independently it can run w/shared resources, but that still contitutes an Upgrade and not an Update.

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 95
Jack Nørdam | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:27 PM

If there is any L5 underway, then I think it will be released within the next year or so. Windows 8 has just been released, and I think L5 will be working with that platform.

However, I'm only guessing!

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Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:43 PM

Hi Jack! I think that is a safe bet… especially since L4 is already working with Win 8. Smile

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