Greek education/training

Steve Carmeli said:

For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?

Hello and welcome Steve,

Not all M.Div programs are equivalent. I would say that with one year of NT Greek under your belt plus the "learn biblical Greek with Logos DVDs" you should be able to use the tool to its full potential.

I've been working my way through Greek for the Rest of Us: Using Greek Tools without Mastering Biblical Greek, by William Mounce, and I've found it very helpful. It provides a bare minimum of Greek knowledge, but it's enough to help me understand commentaries and other Greek resources in Logos better. He also does a good job emphasizing that at this level of Greek, the reader shouldn't be making any independent conclusions not backed up by knowledgeable commentators.

I don't plan to stop there though, I'm just trying to get some immediately applicable knowledge and a head start for when I start Greek at seminary.

A basic knowledge of Greek will certainly help you benefit from the many language tools available in Logos.  I am not sure anyone ever is able to "fully use" Logos, because there is always more to learn.  But it will surely help.

If you have the opportunity to study Greek, I would highly recommend taking advantage of that opportunity.  It will greatly benefit your study of God's Word. 

I took far more Greek that was required of me at Asbury Seminary, and Asbury required far more than the average seminary.  In fact, I had to take 6 hours of Greek that did not even count toward my degree before they let me start taking Greek exegesis courses that did count toward my degree.  How I resented those hours not counting at the time!  Now I wish they had made me take 12 hours Greek before starting.  (They now count those 6 hours toward the degree as elective hours.  The whimps!)  I will not even say what I think of a seminary that does not require Greek.

One more thing, there is no "magic bullet" or "short cut" or "easy way" to learn Greek.  It takes practice and persistence.  It is worth it.

I am blessed by your desire to study God's Word seriously.  I commend you, and will pray for you.

Steve Carmeli said:

If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4?  I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?

 

Four years of classical and a couple of years of Koine plus years of experience in using it.

Steve:

Right now on Mounce web page you can get his lectures through the BBG book for $99 with a free bonus gift as well. If you get BGG through amazon and his lectures, you could spend less than $150 and get a huge jump start.

Take a look at iTunes, especially iTunes U. I haven't checked for a while, but there should be several Greek and Hebrew courses there, perfectly free (apart from the books, of course).

Steve, you have received a lot of good answers already. I will try to answer your question best as I understand it. 

Steve Carmeli said:

If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4?

BIOLA is a fine school and will teach you Greek well. Classroom study has many benefits over self-study. I would recommend picking up at least one year of classroom Greek. If it works in your degree plan and you are enjoying the studies, go for a second year.

Steve Carmeli said:

I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities.

The hard part of your question is the "fully utilize" part. I am not one of "them" but there are a few translators and many trained linguists who read the forums. From what I have gathered, they make good use of Logos' capabilities. So a M. Div. is not necessary to "fully utilize" Logos Platinum. But you will not find yourself bored or limited with it either. Depending on the direction your studies take you, you can add many more study resources. (Hebrew, Coptic, Classical Greek & Latin.)

One year of Greek at BIOLA will be a great help. Two years would be fantastic. Or you could just use several of the resources others have recommended.

Dean053 said:

one of the only textbooks worth the effort is Hansen and Quinn's Greek: An Intensive Course, with the slight caveat that if you're really struggling, start with Athenaze and move on to H and Q the second year.

I'm still rather partial to the text used in my 1st yr classical Greek course—Crosby & Schaeffer.  At the time I really disliked the book, but that was largely because its printing was apparently made from old plates which made the text smudgy and hard to read.  Since then the newer editions have cleaned up the typeface.

BIOLA?

If you live in California, give this upcoming workshop a try:

http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/greek-workshop-fresno2012/

I'm not a Greek instructor, but I've known Dr. Buth for a number of years, and I attended last year's workshop - in the photo that's me on the far left (as you face the picture) in the second row, wearing the purplish shirt and beige jeans with my hands on my hips and clean-shaven - Dr. Buth is standing/waving behind me wearing the floppy hat.

You'll need to sign up quickly and order the materials now so you can spend several weeks listening to and going through at least Living Koine Greek Part 1 (picture book and MP3 audio). It will give you a radically different way of learning NT Greek - as a living language using the closest approximation to first-century pronunciation that is currently known, developed by Dr. Buth and explained here http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Greek_Pronunciation_2008.pdf

I understand that as of last week 20 students had already signed up. You can read some descriptions of the experience here:http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=751

including one instructor's great success using the materials and method at his seminary.

UNFORTUNATELY my lack of a venue for teaching, as well as lack of time (I have a full-time non-ministerial/non-seminary job and am not in a church that would or could have a class for this) has left me pretty much where I was with this last summer with no subsequent progress - regress would be more like it. I'd love to go again, but I have no practical way of applying what I'd learn, so I can't justify the repeated cost to myself. Oh, well... maybe some here will go and spread the word!

FYI, Φιλιππος in the center of the picture (click on it and zoom in), balding in the plaid shirt and raising his left hand to wave is A. Philip Brown II, author of these books, some of which you may have seen (i.e., the Reader's Hebrew Bible): http://www.amazon.com/A.-Philip-Brown-II/e/B001JPCG52/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

George Somsel said:

Go goofy day?

[<:o)] Thanks George, I needed a laugh (leave it to you). I'll have to check out the picture now too.

George Somsel said:

Eric Weiss said:

in the photo that's me on the far left (as you face the picture) in the second row, wearing the purplish shirt and beige jeans with my hands on my hips and clean-shaven - Dr. Buth is standing/waving behind me wearing the floppy hat.

What was that?  Go goofy day?

C'mon George! Everyday is a goofy day.....