Searching the QSM Database
Searching the Qumran Sectarian Manuscripts database is not very effective, unless you actually right click on a word in the text and do a lemma search from there. Typing a lemma into the morphological search or the basic search box is hit or miss--sometimes it produces results, sometimes it doesn't. I think this has something to do with the fact that the lemma tagging in QSM is not synchronized with the Westmister morphological lemma tagging. I found a thread on the forums about this, but nothing seems to have been resolved.
The primary value of having these transcriptions in Logos is the ability to do morphological searches. Any updates in the works?
Related thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22407/167212.aspx#167212
Something like the SESB lemma search in Libronix (Logos 3) would be great!
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Furthermore, navigation in QSM is slower than other resources. Clicking on the QSM tab in a layout with only a couple other resources open bogs down the program for a few seconds. Other resources do not do this. Opening the table of contents tab takes a few seconds, not so in other resources.
One quick illustration of the problem described in the first post in this thread: When I type "lemma:גלה" into a morph search, I get zero results. Doing the same search with Brill's Dead Sea Scrolls Electronic Library gives me 115 results (not counting those places where the lemma is completely reconstructed). I have encountered this with several words--so much so that I don't bother running these searches anymore. I use another product for DSS.
Is no one else trying to use this Logos resource, or is something wrong on my end?
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Brian ... I'm usually either already 'in' the sectarian mss's (in which case I right-click for other examples), or I'm well outside and pick it up from a search in another resource. Either way, I usually don't run into the issue you're running into.
I don't know if Mark is visiting periodically but his issues with DSS tagging etc go back a ways (as you probably noticed).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I simply gave up and moved to the competitors for these kind of searches. Logos is aiming at a different market (how else can you explain this basic problem remaining unresolved for years). The scholar who needs reliable search results in Hebrew texts should never use it.
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Greetings David,
I agree with you. But, I hope someone at Logos will take notice of this thread and start working on these Hebrew Morphological issues mentioned on this thread as well as the following other features I think are pretty basic:
(1) enable accent and vowel sensitive searching for Hebrew Texts
(2) allow users to search on the non-tagged features of Hebrew texts
(3) allow wild card searches on vowel point and cantillation mark patterns in the BHS
(4)bring back 'regular expression' searches in Hebrew and other language texts
(5) Add, the ability to search on roots/radicals
(6) Add a Graphical Query Editor to Logos4 Or 5 for morphological searches
I am happy, that Logos wants to be a pioneer for syntactical databases and discourse analysis databases, but I hope that some of the basic aren't forgotten forever. People still want and need the basics and it is the big reason people are forced to pursue other software platforms to meet their needs at least in this area. As, a theological library program, no one comes close to Logos and I am thankful that I have access the Massorah Gedolah through Logos. Maybe, when Logos5 is released?
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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These are indeed essential requirements for any scholarly bible software. I doubt whether it would be profitable for Logos to engage in such an endeavour. No bells and whistles just plain old good programming...
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BKMitchell said:
(2) allow users to search on the non-tagged features of Hebrew texts
Can you elaborate on your #2? Thanks!
(Re: the original question on the thread - the word picker in the morph search panel is currently limited to one word list per morphology, which causes some problems if we have two databases that use the same morphology, but different lemma lists - for example if they handle homographs differently. So what you're seeing in the word-picker is the lemma list prepared for the Westminster 4.2. I believe we have related issues on the Greek side, for example words that appear in the LXX but not the NT, for example, won't appear in the drop-down menu - though there are few homograph-related complications. We do have plans to remove this limitation so that multiple lemma lists can serve the same morphology in the future, but right now the best way to search QSM is off right-clicking on the word in the QSM database and launching the search from there.)
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[quote
user="Vincent Setterholm"]Can you elaborate on your #2?
Thanks!Thank
you for taking interest in this thread and for explaining the issue
with the QSM. Now, I here are a few examples:Example
one:Metheg
and Siluk, are represented by the same character, but a Siluk can be
distinguished because it is usually followed by a Sof-Pasuk. It, is
also used to indicate the first letter of a stressed syllable. So,
let's say someone wants to create a list that distingishes between
words with a the qamatz gadol and qatan. To do that they would
probably need to run a search the Metheg mark. To my knowlegdr this
is not possible.Example
two:One,
would like to search for senteces in a certiant book where Paseq
occureExample
three:One,
would like to search for everyplace where a Mappiq appears in
the letter 'Aleph'Example
four:searchs
for Nun
HafukhaExample
five:Search
on the Petuhah and Setumah marks in the TorahExample
sixPhrases
with MaqqefExample
seven:distingishing
between Pasual and non-pasual forms in searches likeלָ
חֶ םלֶ
חֶ םExample
eight:For
example if someone needed to find all the occurrences of Etnachta
Clauses (where the following cantilltation marks appear in this
order: mercha, tipcha, munach, and etnachta) in the PentateuchThanks for asking
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Fixed in Logos 5
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David Knoll said:
Fixed in Logos 5
What exactly was fixed in Logos 5? There have been so many feature requests in this thread... are you referring to the ability to type directly into the search box a lemma and get expected results?
I am interested in getting the database, so would like to know, thanks.
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While you're waiting on David or BK's reply, be forwarned that the QSM doesn't link well to the DDS-SE (or much else). I have to use a trick-pony sequence to keep them lined up.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I was refering to the lemma searches, but I was wrong. Some lemmas like גלה still don't work..
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David Knoll said:
Some lemmas like גלה still don't work..
If you open a morph search against the QSM and type גלה, Logos 5 will offer the spelling actually found in that database, which is גּלה, as an option to select, and it'll find 152 hits. There are going to be words that don't search across every Westminster resource, either because of differences in spelling or differences in how homographs are handled, but in Logos 4, QSM really only worked off a right-click, because the drop-downs were keyed to one edition of Westminster regardless of what one was searching, while in Logos 5 the drop-down word-picker supports the QSM lemma list as well.
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Interesting that didn't work for me yesterday and now it does.
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Thanks for clearing that up, Vincent. It's good to hear it is now working correctly.
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DMB said:
While you're waiting on David or BK's reply, be forwarned that the QSM doesn't link well to the DDS-SE (or much else). I have to use a trick-pony sequence to keep them lined up.
Anyone tried linking (for scrolling) QSM with with "The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation"? Given that QSM and this translation are by the same author maybe there is a better chance it will link well for scrolling.
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Looks like I'm going to have to 'eat' a few words.
I just switched over to my DSS window and paged Abegg's new translation; the DSS-SE moved along and QSM didn't. Then I paged QSM which moved DSS-SE but not the new translation. However, I'm not entirely sure if the issue is content or that Logos isn't matching up the differing tag schemes. I notice if the identification is in the 'normal' ID's (eg 4Q521) they all move correctly, but when you move into the specialty manuscripts (eg 1QS etc), it's a no-go.
Rant: This is another example where the 'back' arrows are not dependable first in Logos4 and now Logos5. As I moved each resource, they scrolled as they wished. But then when I wanted to go back to where I was studying, none of the back-arrows in any of the resources could be clicked. It sure would be NICE if Logos would USE its own software. Yes, I'm griping, since now I have to close Logos and reload it for the previous layout, and then try to find where I was.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Looks like I'm going to have to 'eat' a few words.
OK, thanks, so linked scrolling works sort of correctly - sounds like you don't need to eat much though, if I understand correctly there are still problems! [pi][B] Hopefully if someone from Logos sees this they can put it on the list of things to correct for the documents that it's not yet working for.
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So, I got the QSM database, and so far I am happy with it. It scrolls correctly in the parts I have seen anyway, and I have been able to type in lemmas and search without problems so far.
The main disappointment has actually been that results from the QSM database don't appear in the "Textual Searches" section of the Bible Word Study. Any plans to add this?
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I assume you're noting the BWS limitation applies to 'any' DSS resource (including DSS-SE)? (Or my version of life is not working right!). Glad the scrolling is working for you.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thanks. Yes, I had noticed it with the DSS-SE, but since it is not morphologically tagged it makes sense that it doesn't appear in the Textual Searches area. Since the QSM is morph tagged I would definitely expect it to appear there. [:^)]
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In real life, I can successfully mask my frequent lapses into 'not thinking very hard'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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LOL. [:D]
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Vincent, I very much appreciate the ability to do searches for words in the QSM now, rather than just from the right-click option. This is because sometimes I am interested in whether a word occurs in that corpus or not. Or I may not know where any specific example of a Hebrew word occurs in the QSM but I still want to search for that word. So this is a MAJOR improvement. Like Fr Devin Roza, I would appreciate it if searching the lemma in QSM also showed up in the textual searches of the Bible Word Study. But this is not as important as the change you have already made.
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